Leonard-Duran I (1980)

[JAB5239]

- -Nope.

Circumstances dictated Ray never got the credit leading to his subsequent primadonna retirements to hide his inferiority complex.

That make zero sense and is not a response to what I posted.

[slicksouthpaw16]

I had it 144-143 for Durán. Going into the last round, Ferdie Pacheco and the other announcers were even saying how the fight could go either way at that point, and that they were shocked at how well Ray was doing at standing in the pocket with Durán. Actually, Leonard had more stamina and won the last round clearly while Durán played it safe. That just goes to show that if Leonard actually boxed and used his legs, it wouldn't have even been that hard of a fight. I've read Leonard's bio and watched several of his interviews, and its clear that Durán got into his head and forced him to fight his fight.

Durán beat a prime Leonard but he wasn't a better fighter and wouldn't have won a series vs Leonard either way (even if they rematched right away after the 2nd fight, would've been the same or even worse than the rematch). Leonard was much better at fighting inside the pocket than Durán was at boxing in the middle of the ring, especially when Ray decided to utilize footwork and box. Not even debatable IMO. I believe talent wise, Leonard was the best (not greatest which belongs to Robinson) welter of all time, and was good enough to even split a series with Robinson if he was on his A game. Easily one of my top fantasy match ups.

[slicksouthpaw16]

nah Hearns wouldnt heave beat Duran that night. Hearns koed Duran years later at 154. Duran was partied out and overconfident after being the only guy to go the distance with Hagler and in his mind beat him. Duran barely trained for Hearns who had a stoppage loss to SRL. Duran straight up underestimated him.

Duran in 1980 was an entirely different animal.

Hearns is a death match up for Durán at any point IMO. I don't think anyone with that kind of disadvantage in size, reach, power etc. would be able to beat Hearns. You have to remember that Leonard (5'10 and natural welter) played keep away vs Hearns in the early rounds, was losing rounds till he slowly cranked up the pressure and didn't get the stoppage till the 14th after being down several rounds. Even still, Hearns managed to crack Ray with right hands and swole his eye up.

I don't see Durán boxing on his toes or avoiding Hearns that long, matter of fact he was almost taken out in the first round as it was. I don't think Durán being in better shape would change his game plan. He's literally couldn't avoid almost any bomb that Hearns threw. A bad match up is a bad match up.

[QueensburyRules]

Where is a my topic with invite? Hmm i cant find it now ;/ wizz

- -It hiding wif Ray inferiority complex and courage.

[them_apples]

The thing is, if anyone ever truly followed Durans career, after the first Leonard win he balooned up and was never the same again. he became a flat footed fighter with tricks but constantly conserving his stamina by not moving his legs.

[Anthony342]

I know jab that article is pretty much how I explained it earlier in this thread.....no one would touch Duran , promoters , trainers , his managers etc .....he was in exile and the boxing world cast shame on him.
He then came back back had a couple of lacklustre wins and then lost his next two fight against Benitez and Laing.....these idiots on here have no idea about the history of this bout and why the rubber match never happened earlier in the 1980’s ....Duran would lose 5 times before leonard faced hagler in 1987 but posters on here refuse to accept that.
Fighters have to win to make the big fights possible and Duran didn’t when it was needed against leonard and the 3rd fight in the early 80’s

Unless you're Roy Jones. Then you can lose to a journeyman and still get a rematch with Hopkins

[The plunger man]

The thing is, if anyone ever truly followed Durans career, after the first Leonard win he balooned up and was never the same again. he became a flat footed fighter with tricks but constantly conserving his stamina by not moving his legs.

Duran was a notorious bad trainer and ray arcel had to constantly drag him out of bed to train...even before the leonard fight Duran would gain weight....he did it all through his career so that’s a feeble excuse and if dejesus could beat Duran rest assured Tommy hearns would
...hearns was all wrong for Duran in every way

[slicksouthpaw16]

The thing is, if anyone ever truly followed Durans career, after the first Leonard win he balooned up and was never the same again. he became a flat footed fighter with tricks but constantly conserving his stamina by not moving his legs.

There were fights even pre Leonard where he ballooned and fought at junior middleweight and while he was at lightweight, there were multiple times where he fought well past the lightweight limit (at or above junior welter). For Ray to say that he took the rematch quick because he knew Durán would party and be out of shape, meant that he was known for this even pre Leonard. I don't see why he would be shot vs Hearns when he literally had a history of doing this already. Plus, he became junior middleweight and middleweight champion afterwards.

Just always seemed like there are tons of excuses coming from Durán and his fans (no offense to anyone, just my observation) and I'm a fan of his myself. I actually heard someone in this thread say that he overlooked Hearns because of how well he fought against Hagler which is laughable to me. Not only did Durán lose to Hagler, but who overlooks a once beaten, tall, dangerous boxer like Hearns that had the reputation of a killer in the ring?

[QueensburyRules]

Duran was a notorious bad trainer and ray arcel had to constantly drag him out of bed to train...even before the leonard fight Duran would gain weight....he did it all through his career so that’s a feeble excuse and if dejesus could beat Duran rest assured Tommy hearns would
...hearns was all wrong for Duran in every way

- -Plungy sweetems, in his autobio Ray says he was so black and blue sore he was gonna announce his retirement until he got word Duran had partied hardy all the way to 200lb in a couple months.

He dangled a career purse and Duran snapped it up and only a few idjits want to argue about what happened.

I've made clear his loss was all Durans fault, but it sure weren't the masterclass U Elmo's get misty about. It really does bother U that some starving 3rd world kid too poor do anything but do labor or fight always had U shiny golden Heros number.

[JAB5239]

- -Plungy sweetems, in his autobio Ray says he was so black and blue sore he was gonna announce his retirement until he got word Duran had partied hardy all the way to 200lb in a couple months.

He dangled a career purse and Duran snapped it up and only a few idjits want to argue about what happened.

I've made clear his loss was all Durans fault, but it sure weren't the masterclass U Elmo's get misty about. It really does bother U that some starving 3rd world kid too poor do anything but do labor or fight always had U shiny golden Heros number.

Always had his number? He was 1-2 against him. Is that the number you're speaking of?