the more appropriate question is who has fared better against tough competiton. everyone is saying that DLH fought everyone...well he was the cash cow so all the top guys had to go after him in order to get their payday. and DLH accepted those fights to get a payday as well. unfortunately he lost most of his fights against the better competition. Floyd's only "close" fight was Castillo I. Ive never seen someone get so much acclaim for losing fights. I remember some people saying that Floyd could never knock Hatton out then after he knocked him out, all of a sudden Floyd was too big. now thats just hate
I stopped reading....here
it was meant as sarcasm you dweeb! my question is, how come u so called boxing fans would rather see DLh fight a smaller guy like cotto, mayweather or even hatton(even read on on thread the he was calling out paciao)...instead of a actually having a truly competitive fight? in all those fight everyone would just wait on the DLH's left hook for the knockout. with winky, he would actually have to show some skill. when was the last time he has actually shown some skill in a fight? i want to see good match ups. not just the best match ups that would bring the fighter's the most money. if thats the case let him fight paciao and make all the money. but whats the intrigue in a fight like that? the PPV numbers?
well in most fights DLH is the draw anyways, right? So all winky would have to do is talk a lil shit, maybe even push DLH down at a pressor and BAM! suddenly the fight is alot more attractive. now we have the bad guy(winky wright). then have DLH say, there is no way im gonna lose to a grown man named "Winky". BAM! more fuel to the fire...lol...at this point does DLH really need to make 20 or 30 mil EVERY fight?? he still doesnt have a primetime WIN! most of his matches have been controversial either awared for him or against him. He needs to have a convincing win against a top rate opponent who most people would say he should lose to. Against winky he could have all the advantages--ring size, weight, gloves, ref, make winky agree to only train the last 2 weeks leading up to the fight...lol...im sure winky would agree. but wait, mayweather agreed to all his terms as well and beat him. oh well, maybe it could work for him This time
you don't seem to understand, nobody gives a shit about Winky, let Winky get a few wins under his belt then maybe Delahoya can feed him another bone
you dont understand! for DLH fans(and im not one) this could be a win win situation. like i said, winky would probably be favored, so now DLH(the underdog) would have a big win under his own belt(lord knows he needs one). forget the money and draw b/c DLH is the draw all on his own, right DLH fans? i mean it would draw the same as the dlh/pbf fight being that PBF didnt draw anyone to the fight. so what if DLH makes 30 mil instead of 40 mil, it wont hurt him. or is it that he is actually scared of a the challenge? i often hear how some fighters would rather fight for the payday instead of a pure challenge from time to time. well here is DLH's chance to fight for the pure challenge. against someone his size and his class of fighter. and actually someone he has a legit chance to beat.
I have no interest whatsoever in seeing DLH fighting Hatton, Floyd, or Pac-man.
I would like to see Oscar fight Cotto however. Cotto fights are, imo, more exciting than Winky fights. Thus the reason why I'd like to see De La Hoya v Cotto rather than De La Hoya v Wright. Got it??
Yea i feel what ur saying! but im just trying to get my point across. as to why im saying that DLH needs a win to solidify his career. IMO, he has a better chance of doing that against winky. And if Winky went on the offensive like he did against Taylor then it would definitely be an exciting fight. I want to see some intrigue and drama in boxing. i want to see an old warrior actually dig deep to pull out a victory. DLH is resting on his past as far as good victories go. all of the controversies in his career. does he even have a defining moment in his career? i win over Cotto IMO would be good, but he cant win that fight. Cotto is too strong and relentless. to go along with DLH's stamina---bad combo for him. Wright is the better match up for him. A good Mar/Apr fight. then fight cotto in the fall and the retire.
why not fight winky? DLH needs a win vs a good opponent in which many people would favor over him. it would do alot for his legacy if he could pull off a victory. and with winky's defensive style, it would be just right for DLH's flailing flurries! then DLH fans could easily say DLH did all the work and winky hardly threw any punches. then DLH would have a win over a top 10 P4P fighter. his buzz would be even greater with a good win. with 4 losses in the last 5 fights sooner or later thats gonna wear off and his light isnt gonna shine as much. winky would be a good fight for DLH. it would be dangerous but also winnable. But if Winky comes out and becomes offensive like he was against Taylor, then it could be all over for him.
kericuss~
you took the words right out of my mouth, except i'll bet anyone oscar loses BOTH fights by wide margins. oscar knows it and that is why the fights will never happen.
I agree. But for the simple fact of how he tries to steal rds in the last 20 sec...he would have better chance against winky. but i think winky would be aggressive in that fight. also i think DLH gets too much credit for fighting big time fights and losing them. Of course he is gonna get the big fights b/c everyone knows he is the big payday and not only that, they know they would most likely win! so its not that DLH is calling out the big name guys, they are calling him out and he goes with the one who he thinks will bring him the most money win or lose. People give him credit for "making it a good fight"...yea right! all of his big fights were controversial. he was surprisedat how well he did against tito, so surprised in fact, he ran for the last half of the fight to try to avoid a loss. said that he was robbed against mosely in fight#2, wanted to get lawyers involved to try to get it reversed. didn hear anything about him wanting to get lawyers involved in the sturm or whitaker fight...
its that special feeling when you look into your girl's eye and she looks back and you both get lost in the atmosphere of love.
yea but in ur case she straps on and bends u over the back of the couch and makes u her "Pretty Boy"...now thats ring generalship for your ass!!!!
I wanted this to be an informative thread..no BS
The thing is that sometimes you don't know or can't see it untill after the fight is over.
If you look at Ali / Foreman it looks as if Foreman is in charge of the fight but in the end you see that Ali was being a ring general by out smarting him and making him run himself out of gas.
Foreman claims that he set Micheal Morrer up in the same fashion.
He made Moorer think that he didn't have as much power as people have said and let Morrer become overconfident which led to the knockout.
yea i can tell u know ur boxing. but if its a factor that u can really tell only at the end of a fight, why is it a criteria in judging? judges, judge each round individually, therefore if they dont realize whose actually in control of a fight until rd 6 or 7 they may have misjudged the first half of the fight!
see thats what im saying! At no point did hatton seem like he was "controlling" the fight. he landed a couple of good shots during the infighting early on, but was he really controlling the action?he had a lot of movement which gives the impression that he was doing a lot but really he tired himself out with a lot of "ineffective aggression". so again, if he was controlling the tempo of the fight(fighting his style and pace) how come he got tired so fast? was he really fighting the way PBF wanted him to fight? was the fight really going the way PBF wanted it to go? b/c to me hatton didnt pace himself at all and fot KO'd for his miscalculations
it sounds like u jut want PBF to fight until he loses so u can say "i told u so"! if u predict the comboys are gonna win the super bowl every yr for 10 yrs, and on the 10th yr they finally win, that doesnt mean u know what ur talking about. it just means it finally happened" if u keep saying that PBF is gonna lose, eventually one day it will happen, but if it takes another 5 yrs for it to happen would u still say, "i told u so"?
would any fans like to see each of the judge's cards after each round? it has its negatives and positives. positive is it could possibly lead to more action if fighters know what they need to do to win. but on the flip side, the fighter thats ahead would decide to cruise which could lead for a less exciting fight. Fuck iit! boxing needs a commision! instead of talking about whose ducking who and who should get a bigger cut, etc..us fans need to be screaming for a commission so we can get the fights we want to see more often and at the right time. a "truly credible" commission wouldnt be able to patrol all the cheating and ducking and whatever. thats what we, as fans should be discussing
yea but what if the other guy is beating u at your own style? how can u get credit for having somone fight ur style of fight yet he's is being more effective at it? what if during the fight Fighter A realizes that he can changce his game plan Fighter B's style and beat him at it? yet fans and judges see that Fighter A is fighting Fighter B's style of fight. therefore if its a close round then Fighter b gets the benefit of the doubt(therefore winning the round) b/c he is "fighting he style of fight". does anyone see anything wrong with this?
I dont think PBF's fan base is small! either ur a fanatic about him winning or ur a fanantic about hime losing. regardless your still gonna pay the 50 bucks to see him fight either to win or lose. he's the man u either love or the man u love to hate! and all that equals fanbase. Muhammad Ali wasnt a "fan favorite" early in his career. most people went to to his fights to see him lose b/c of his mouth. and with all those people buying tickets that eventually led the "louisville lip" to become a very profitable fighter. all b/c of his FANS!
yall bitching baout whose filling arenas now! you guys are worse than the promoters! fans have been claiming that boxers are all about the money, yet they are the ones arguing over who should get a bigger share b/c of fan base and whose bringing how many people to the stadium! its ridiculous. alot of fans are hypocrits. they would bash a fighter if he turns down a fight due to money, but yet would still argue that "their fighter" should get more b/c of fanbase
what im saying is, u cant praise Hatton for doing it and claim that its just his "style"...then "devalue" PBF for doing the same thing against the master of it. if Hatton had outboxed PBF u wouold be gloating like hell
cortez stopped a potential huggin match for 12 rds. would u rather that? the first 4 rounds all it was, was hugging! it really wasnt an exciting fight until after rd 4. so instead of critisizing Cortez we should be thanking him
Hatton wasnt chasing the point, he was chasing an ass-whoppin!...lol...ur not gonna say that Hatton didnt fight his fight. he always rushes in. this time he fought some one who obliged hiim early on, then adapted, and knocked his ass out late. case closed
isnt this something...people complaing about Hatton being fouled in a big fight in which took place away from his home country. does this have the same storyline as Hatton/Tsyzu??? except people praised Hatton for being about to make Tsyzu quit on his stool, b/c he hit and held, wrestled, and fouled all night! and b/c the ref, supposedly, didnt let Hatton do that this fight, its showing bias???? so its ok for the ref to show bias when it for Hatton, but its not when its against him. seems like b4 the fight everyone was saying that Hatton would be the one roughousing that PBF would be runnin. but PBF turned the tables on hatton and surprised everyone by showing everyone he could "mix it up" when he has to. Hatton lost his style of fight to a better fighter. and thats it
IMO he didnt win any of those fights. early in his career he got the benefit of doubt b/c he was the young lion! American OlympiC Gold Medalist! So things went his way(i.e. whitaker and ike). then people realzed that he doesnt have the skills to really get the benefit anymore. He ran from Trinidad the 2nd half of the fight, 1st mosely--mosely cleary outworked him, 2nd mosely--people are often fooled by Lampley' call of the fight(watch it with the sound off or better yet, when Lampley says "and DLH lands a big flurry) watch it in slow motion and see that most if not any of the punches landed(sound familiar)...he lost to sturm--what did DLH do to actually win that fight? hopkins demolished him. PBF beat him bad enough that DLH fans were giving him sympathy rounds. they want to say DLH won b/c he didnt get blown away like even they thought he would. DLH fans want to claim that he is a good fighter, then say stuff like,"well he was never blown out in any of his fights." WTF??? has he ever blown anyone he has fought out? oh yea an old ass Chavez(who ironically he gave a rematch to, but didnt give sweet pea or ike one). and an undersized gatti. lets get real
And stop saying he fought the best fighters. trust me its not b/c he wanted to. all the best fighters called him out b/c they new it was a victory for them and their biggest payday(for DLH as well)...DLH got all the concessions in every fight(ring size, glove type, weight, date) and still lost. now if the NE PATS told every team they played that they would have to play in FOXBORO, and that NE would get the ball inside their own 20 at the start of every possession, and the other team is only allowed 3 downs instead of 4, and NE still losses, would they be considered "great"...i dont think so, so why should DLH.
Its amazing how when a young undefeated fighter gets knocked down or has a tough fight, it seems like someone cant wait to come out and say he's a "fraud"! he' s a young guy fighting a veteran and still is dominating. comments and thoughts like that is what keep the mega fights from happening. thats why fighters try to protect their undefeated records so badly. if they lose or be in a tough fight then they are perceived to be "overrated", which could hurt their earning potential. let the man fight and learn from each and and every one of them b4 you start saying he's been exposed
But dont you think that they could make just as much money with just one champ? i mean even the top contenders could make good money b/c the public will watch. why will they watch? b/c they know its gonna be a good matchup...not only would the champ regain its credibility for being the champ, but the #1 contender spot would be important as well. b/c fighter would want that #1 spot just as much as the title belt. IMO i just think the sport has too much talent and potential stars to have only 1 or 2 self promoters and 1 who is the "cash cow" and is making all the money albeit only fighting once a yr. lets get it together
why would anybody bet on boxing knowing how corrupt and crooked it is? fighters taking dives, judges taking bribes...and yall would risk your hard earned money on that? For instance if you bet on the CHAVEZ-WHITAKER fight for Whitaker(a fight he clearly won, trust me their is no debate) but it was ruled a draw due to some shady scoring. why shouldnt u get paid? do u like losing your money that way?
yea, the guy is hasnt had 20 fights yet and "he's been exposed"! hell with under 20 fights, he should be exposed! Its called on-the-job training. kearn from it, get better, and show what u learned in the next fight. and im sure Berto learned a lot from this fight in which he will take into his training for his next fight
Well if the fans decide not to watch or buy tickets to any of the "rogue" promotions of a championship fight then shit would change. actually we dont need the alphabet comissions to do it. we already recognize the "ring" champion as the real champ. really the other so-called champs are irrelevant. if a fighter doesnt apply and become registered as a "ring" boxer, then he doesnt fight. and of course we would have the get the states sanctioning bodies to help out by not sanctioning any of the "rogue" promotions. yea it will take a lot to make it happen, but it can be done. us a fans just have to DEMAND it
Pavlik wins a slugfest with Miranda and all of a sudden he has the "skills" to beat a top fighter. Say what u will about Taylor he has fought and he has won. Here lately people seem to be obsessed with if a fighter doesnt blow out his opponent then he must not be good. U cant knock out everyone. i saw the Pavlik and Miranda fight and if Miranda had knocked Pavlik out(which he could have b/c he has Pavlik hurt several times as well) would u still give Pavlik the same chances of beating taylor? Taylor wont outbox Pavlik? man please! Spinks would make Pavlike look really bad b/c he just walks in. Walking in on Taylor would be a big mistake for Pavlik since he doesnt have a sturdy defense like Wright. Taylor late KO
1: Miranda is a top fighter. He lost to the better fighter ( Pavlik), but he def is a top fighter, with big power. He broke King Authors jaw, and would have won the fight if it weren't fight him being deducted a billion points.
2: "Here lately people seem to be obsessed with if a fighter doesnt blow out his opponent then he must not be good." I agree with this, but thats not the case with Taylor. Taylor, got all he could handle from a blown up welterweight. Have you ever seen Steward so mad before. He fought a terrible fight, and we(fight fans) all have a right to be concerned with Jermains recent fights.
3: Taylor has abandoned his jab recently. If he doesn't use his jab, he won;t be able to outbox anyone. He was confused with Ouma's constant pressure, and his steady output of punches. The thing is, Ouma couldn't hurt Taylor. Pavlik can hurt anyone at middleweight, and he will sure as hell give taylor that same kinda of pressure that Ouma did. Pair that with the fact that Taylor has recently fallen in love with putting his back against the ropes, and depending on the occasional power right hand to win him rounds, and you get a strong possibilty that Pavlik could just outwork Taylor against the ropes to win 7 rounds. Also Pavlik has an IRON chin, so Taylor won't be able to seriously hurt him with one punch. I mean Miranda landed 5 BOMBS in a row on him, and he wasn;t that hurt. You also seem to think that Pavlik just " walks in." He uses his jab to come in, watch some more of his fights.
6: If you think Spinks would stay on his feet for 12 rounds against Pavlik you're very wrong. Taylor could have Koed him if he had just thrown punches.
what makes Miranda a top fighter? b/c he has power? Power is nothing when u have no defense against someone else's power. who was Miranda b4 the allan green fight? nobody really. and u made my point for me when u said Pavlik took 5 straight bombs. thats not a good strategy against anyone, especially Taylor. and it may also go to show the lack of power Miranda has if he hits a guy with 5 straight bombs and the guy isnt hurt. i dont know of any other boxer taking 5 straight shots and not be wobbled.
im not saying it wont be a good fight. i just give the edge to taylor in this one. his last coupl of fights he has fought a slick southpaw in Spinks and boxers with good defense and overall skill in Hopkins and Wright. Ouma was an off night. but having a gy who will stand in fron off him and who doesnt have a great defense(being hit with 5 straight bombs) would be a welcom sight for Taylor
A: If you don;t think Miranda isn't a good fighter to have on your resume you need to watch more boxing.
B: If you think Taylor is more powerful than Miranda you REALLY need to watch more boxing.
C: If you think Miranda isn't powerfull, than you REALLY REALLY need to watch more boxing.
D: Miranda was a fighter who had beaten the shit out of Author Abraham, a legit middleweight CHAMPION.
E: Pavlik throws 100 punches a round, he's going to get hit eventually, but he's chin will make up for his at times weak defense ( 5 straight bombs from Miranda on the chin) and allow Kelly to outwork him. Taylor has been in with two straight light middleweights,and he's struggled against both.
F: Pavlik won;t just be standing in front of Taylor, you've obviously only seen his fight against Miranda. His defense will be a little tighter, and he will jab Talor back into the ropes, and then let loose.
G: You said Pavlik doesn;t have the skills to beat a " top" fighter. This might be true, he won't outskill the true boxers, but he will outhustle them with his huge workrate, booming power, and Iron chin.
you still hae not told me what makes Miranda a good fighter to you? Reason why i question Miranda's power? if anyone hits someone else on the chin 5 straight times and supposedly has power, no matter how strong their chin is, they are gonna show some signs of affect(if not be KTFO). one of the light MW was a slick southpaw in which it took another slick southpaw to look good against(Zab judah). after winning against 2 P4P guys and one all time great MW...a big, loose power guy probably wont pose a big a threat as many may think. Pavliks KO ratio is impressive and i have seen plenty of his fights, but i dont think he will back JT up as easily as some think. JT is a worker as well. like i said, it will be a good match up