What changed? How can people show undying loyalty for 4-5-6 years, then overnight drop all allegiance and act like they knew Wilder was trash all along? Am I the only one who finds this behaviour odd?
Six months ago comments sections and YouTube videos would be filled with people making brash statements about Deontay knocking everyone out with ease, past and present. Those same people still fill the comments sections, but now say the exact opposite.
:smashfrea
Because they never genuinely understood the sport in the first place...and because they can't formulate an opinion based on their own knowledge, they defer their thinking to others they hear or read who they believe are knowledgeable.
When the herd changes direction, they do too. It's just typical 'jump on the conventional thinking' bandwagon.
Really good post W1LL...the dirty business of boxing.
It's not new...Sugar Ray Robinson used to literally get out a tape measure and check the ring size was actually contractually agreed...as a 'mover' fighting often heavier opponents he needed every foot.
If you can manage to get a series of 1%, 2% and 5% advantages from as many sources pre-fight, your going a long way to winning (and these advantages / contexts almost always get lost later on when discussing the result = 'oh your making excuses').
Ring size, soft / wet padding, too tight or too loose ring ropes, whether there is slick (slippery) advertising on the canvas or not, various contractual clauses specifying weight / weigh-in times / limits, the recently infamous re-hydration clauses, catch-weight fights to one fighter's optimum advantage, where the non-local opponent can train / workout and many other tricks - these are all things that headliners can influence or even blatantly dictate.
Then there's the when / where a fight is made....its very hard for a fighter to win away from home after a loss (especially a knockout loss); and if a fighter has been out of training / not had a fight for over 12 months, he's got little chance of winning in an opponents hometown. Animal psychology.
Little advantages adding up to a significant advantage...just shows the benefit of experienced fighters / corners actually checking just what they're waking into. Great clips.
He’s just a three time golden gloves champion who made the Olympic trials as a middleweight. He’s also a former referee and the former commissioner of the New Jersey Athletic Control Board.
I didn’t agree with his card but jeez guys, it’s not like he’s a bum off the street.
Well, he may have been an ex-fighter, but then that shouldn't give him a pass for being terrible in officiating. Most officials involved in boxing are ex-am's at least.
I remember him well when he was a referee and commissioner and he was always ****e...he definitely never should have had the commissioner's role - he hit his ceiling as a ref and was a political appointment as commissioner and it really showed.
He's be in the crowd and overturn referee's in ring decisions of fights in a whim (remember, these are his commission's ref's - either they're competent to make the call in the ring or they're not); perpetuated blatant bias against overseas fighters; I think he was even involved in a brawl once in ring; also kept clearly incompetent (or corrupt) judges / referees on the books etc etc.
He was always described as being 'controversial'.
It would be amazing if, given all else, he was even an average judge. That he cannot score sounds very much like the Larry Hazzard we all wished would go away by the early 90's.
The fact that he is even top 10 at 40 shows how weak this hw era is. Ortiz would have gotten laid out in those eras.
Sure, anyone around during the even the 90's can tell you that.
Of course, like most ex-Cubans, we see a fighter who probably left his best back in the amateurs.
Luis Ortiz is almost a perfect techician with size power and speed.
He would contend in any era. You’re telling me he wouldn’t Ko 5’9 200 lb Marciano and FrAzier?
:dunce:
One way to think about whether Wilder's legs had any involvement in the power of the punch that kayo'd Ortiz is whether you genuinely believe Wilder could have punched that hard while laying on the ground on his back.
Wilder's kayo punch was obviously not an arm punch....so taking your proposition to its illogical conclusion....
Answer's no.
Hmm, the Breland thing is what puzzles me.
Breland was very technically sound, disciplined, a technician - technically a true boxer-puncher, but he seems to have difficulty imparting these attributes to Wilder.
I wonder if it is deliberate - ie. keep Wilder an unorthodox 'puncher'...just am curious to know the rational.
Wilder's so athletically talented that I'm sure they could have (still could) hot-housed him so he'd be much better technically than he is.
Or is Wilder happy where he is and not keen to learn more than just having the ability to ;land / set up his power.
I think if Canelo was American, the US media would report everything differently.
Maybe that's more a comment on US sports media's bias in favour of US fighters, but the old US bias against foreign fighters is still alive and well.
Canelo seems unappreciated to me....people need reminding he fights for himself, not his or boxing fans in general.
Jersey Joe Walcott, as an inexperienced referee, blew that fight in about a half dozen ways. Not worth even talking about. It's an absolutely terrible example of a referee officiating a fight.
Rule is supposed to be that the count doesn't start until until the referee sights the opponent / standing fighter in the neutral corner the referee nominated he stand in.
The the ten count starts, and no, it isn't ten seconds...it's a ten count. Some referee's (Richard Steele for example) would get excited and sometimes count their ten count quickly. Others, like Steve Smoger, would taken their time with the ten count, and give the knocked down fighter every opportunity to get up and continue.
However, as you've described, I've seen (in the US only), the referee instruct the opponent into the neutral corner and pick up the count from the timekeeper. To my mind, if my fighter didn't beat the ten count, I'd appeal the decision.
Not much help of a response....but yeah, I have also noticed what you described.
For the top level.
He's slow as hell and it was embarrassingly obvious that this guy couldn't do anything to Wilder.
Wilder was patient, patient, patient and bang, that's it. That's what separates a pretender from a champion.
Ortiz got paid tonight, good for him. But please, for the love of God, we should all appreciate that this guy simply never was anywhere near what these wilder fanboys wanted us to believe he was.
A 6 rounds slow plodder with a decent left counter.
Yep...that's about it. Wilder can really crack, but we already knew that.
Kind of hoped Wilder might have shown more versatility in the ways to land the right hand....it's one thing to be patient but its not a good habit to have to wait so long....and I'll have to have another look but it didn't really look like Wilder created the opportunity, but seen one and just took it.
Ortiz really didn't do a great deal at all, other than landing a few jabs / left crosses...it seemed the threat of his offense more than anything kept Wilder fighting conservatively.
Obviously all it took was one opportunity (some punch!), but it kind of means that a more disciplined opponent who doesn't have any lapses could easily run out the clock / go the distance.
At the least, Wilder could be jabbing more so it least he looks like he'd active and not simply giving away rounds...I wonder what Breland makes of all the lost rounds.
Great knockout and good win anyway.
who cares. everyone is entitled to their own shitty opinion on the internet.
Yeah, that's about it.
I get frustrated by posts like that, or the 'does hitting a brick wall bare knuckle make me punch harder' type questions.
Hell, I've even suggested elsewhere that boxing forums should have an IQ test cut-off or feature a 75% pass rate of 20 odd random boxing questions should be required to weed out the 'flamers' (I think that's the word - deliberate trouble makers)....but then whose to say I'd pass myself :loser:
Just got to lump it me thinks.
Wipe the jism off your lip you greasy corrupt bastard
Hahaha, he's behaving exactly the same as his father did when Jose Suleiman Sr was kissing Don King's and JC Chavez' arse in the late 80's / early 90's.
Must be a genetic thing...apple not falling far from the tree.
I suppose at least Jr hasn't been busted smuggling ancient Aztec / Mayan artifacts out of Mexico to sell on the black market like Sr was.
A truly grotesque family....never understood the allure of the green strap as a result. Always thought the WBA strap was the lesser of the two evils with genuine lineage (WBA > WBC).
I am based in Australia - know most of them Down Under although up n comers less so as I backed off from the sport around 2010.
The interesting thing that I've noticed is the difference between TV 'iden******' and the real person. I guess this is more a TV thing, but some people with lovely TV personas are flogs to meet in person, or worse, while some of the less liked people are lovely.
While this is more of a local Australian thing, I've met World champions who fell into the same bracket.
Moral = never trust anything that can be edited - including TV productions.
I've seen Hogan fight twice live - he's always in very good condition / fitness, and he seems to have a good chin.
It'll be interesting to see if he can move up a level from Australian to World class.....
No, he really isnt. Generally speaking he is completely over rated.
I honestly believe Tyson was and is one of the most overrated fighters in history.
The guy is freaking over rated FFS
Kindred spirits...you speak my mind.
Tyson's physical gifts were special, but his failings severe...and those who knew him best have discussed these failings ad nauseam.
Kevin Rooney, Floyd Patterson, Jose Torres, Teddy Atlas, Ritchie Giatchetti....there comments are on the record...I staggers me to think that people who have only watched the man on a TV screen would claim to know better than those who trained, managed or supported the fighter in his prime.
That's some very odd logic by Lewis.
To my way of thinking, he seems very motivated to downgrade the two UK heavy's - AJ and Fury.
The Wallin fight performance by Fury doesn't mean a damn thing if Fury out boxed the stuffing out of Wilder (garbage result notwithstanding) - its the only H2H certain result (and it's recent too) that exists among the trio on which you base a comparison /analysis.
I'd have it Fury > Wilder > Joshua at the moment - likely to change over the next few weeks...placement atm largely determined by the Joshua loss to Ruiz and Fury's outboxing of Wilder. Isn't this pretty universal?
Re. Lewis, yes, either has some real jealousy / relevancy issues with fellow UK heavyweights (I've seen it before with Bruno, and he wasn't too complimentary with Audley Harrison either when opportunity to kick Audley came about), or yes, he's towing the corporate line.
Sad either way...though I suspect it's the former as Lewis doesn't need the money.
He wasn’t trying to “Advice” Joshua, he was throwing shades at every opportunity, now that he got called a clown, he has since stopped and now he is trying to play the old wise head. He did the same thing to Tyson Fury, until Fury threatens to KO him. And where did his advice get David Price? Nowhere...
Agreed, that's my take on it.
I think Lewis might be a little jealous off Joshua's success, I remember Lewis sure didn't react well to criticism of him in the Bruno fight....he really had a nerve pinched when he was called Canadian or not British.
I wonder if somehow Joshua raises those fears (non-acceptance by the UK). Obviously Lewis won the UK over by the late 90's, but who knows how / why he seems to waiting on a permanent Joshua fall.
Still, every fighter fights for himself...no rule you need to help a fellow boxer because he's from the same country.