drakknoir

by modern divisions would Ali and patterson be cruiserweights?

some fighters do it quiet well i think Maidana did a decent job against floyd recently. hard to work out if that was more Maidiana's credit or floyd inviting him in to catch him clean. pacqiuao also does it pretty well when he needs too. carl froch is very good at cutting off the ring considering his lousy footwork anyone who talks about 'running' i just instantly switch off. its boxing, hitting without being hit. why should the more skilled boxer be stigmatised, in the sport of boxing!?

Cant see anything but a Ward decision here. Kovalev is a decent, but for me Ward is tied with Rigo as the best boxer right now. Ward is so underrated its crazy, guy is so talented and he isn't exactly boring either. Ward is different level to Kovalev, I wouldn't be surprised if Ward won 118-112 or something as wide as that. Dont get me wrong Kovalev has the ability to win, and win by KO but he just doesnt have the ability of Ward, technically he is nowhere near as good.

Because He beat Cotto Clottey and Bradley. Period. Nobody else at welterweight right now has that Pedigree. Pacquiao is THE most proven fighter at welterweight. There's nothing you can say to dispute that. If you can, then give me some names. No matter what you say, Bradley is a top 3 Welterweight, and Pac beat him. Period. One thing i've noticed about people on this forum is that they keep over or under analyzing things to the point of them losing sight of the truth. sorry man you cant change history. pac lost to bradley, personally i thought pac edged a close, difficult to score fight. but pac still lost. you cant say someone won when they didnt, you cant re-write history. i wouldnt say pac is the most proven welter, i think id argue bradley is. he holds more recent and notable wins. Rios proved very little, but bradley beat JMM and went toe to toe with prodvinkov and still beat him. btw i thought bradley was a fool in that fight, he could of cruised it but fair play to him he wanted a war and came out on top. if pac meets bradley again i think all the current evidence points towards a bradley UD. pac hasn got the power to KO bradley, i dont think he has the stamina to outwork him either...

Amir khan suprises a lot of people and goes the distance with floyd. amir takes the early rounds but floyd eventually come out on top...just. Broner has a decent come back and starts to live up to his hype. probably faes malinaggi again or another equally soft puncher at 140. Zab judah retires if he cant get a big fight Maidiana vs mayweather in september. manny vs alvarado. manny UD. people call for pac vs floyd but instead Manny fights Bradley and loses by UD. Thurman hype train continues Lomachenko vs Salido. Lomachenko UD donaire vs rigondeaux. rigo UD. vic darchinyan gets KO'ed and retires. deontay wilder V fury. Fury KO. Haye vs Wlad. Wlad KO. i think porter loses his IBF WW belt as no-one seems to be able to defend it lately.

bradley v pac wasnt a robbery, it was a close fight. i thought pac shaded it. but lets be honest pac was nowhere near active enough in that fight. bradley boxed well, never was wobbled like he was vs prodvinkov. i think i had 6rds to 5 in pac favour but some rounds are hard to score considering pac would only fight for the last minute or so! bradley, for me is undoubtably the second best WW behind floyd. i honestly think if pac meets bradley again then bradley UD's him. Bradley has far superior stamina and a granite chin, i cant see pac outworking him or KO'ing him.

gamboa .......

P4P i think leornard is a superior boxer. i think RJJ is overrated (im going to get some stick for this...) dont get me wrong he is/was an amazing boxer easily once of the best modern boxers (last 20 years) if i made a p4p top 100 i would put him in there but he is not, as he is worshipped by some people on here, as a top 10 p4p ATG or anything like that. i look at his career as what could of been rather than what was, he acheived some amazing feats but through no real fault of his own he never had a career defining fight, he barely faced any decent opoosition, and was content fighting sub-par opposition and cruising along. he was never a household name, in the UK no-one outside of boxing has heard of him. hes was never a PPV fighter and most his fights didnt even sell out untill he was arguably past it. Both him and Calzaghe are guilty of not leaving their country enough and making bigger fights. as a result we never saw Jones tested, we never saw him even troubled and that wasnt because he was so much better, it was because of the standard of opposition he faced. i think RJJ is a difficult fighter to judge, its hard to say how good he really was IMO. Leonard had career defining fights, and whilst they are both impressive boxers with excellent handspeed, footwork, agility etc. leonard had a superior chin. at 168 im not sure who would win but P4P leonard is much much better and has faced the opposition to prove it :) a quick look at his record on WIKI you can see he had a record of 40-1 and had only faced 1 household name (Toney) and the majority of the boxers he faced you cant even find them on boxrec! its like they never exisited! he missed out on facing Michalczewski, Ottke and calzaghe, and i believe there was a german fighter aswell who held the WBA or something at the time (cant remember his name). all these would have career defining.

im not a big bob arum fan, pac is bigger than top rank he should leave and make this fight happen? im still annoyed at arum ruining the bantamweight tournament by failing to have Mares v Donaire. It seems that arum is happy to have his fighters fight less competitive fights and fight other top rank opponents so whoever wins, he does. to be fair to floyd he would IMO make any fight he never dodged anyone on the way up. the fight would be made if Arum would let Mayweather promote the fight, that i believe is the main stumbling block

actually this is an intresting match up. at 147 i dont think pac has the power to KO paulie, i think that devastating power just aint there anymore. i think Pac will take it on a UD but with paulie making it really close. In terms of stamina paulie has a huge advantage, pac only ever fights in spurts. but pac will land harder and look more impressive and that will convince the judges. fight will never happen though, paulie wont make pac look good, pac will face another come forward pressure type fighter, maidana maybe?

Pac still has more power than Hatton or Khan, who ragdolled a much freshed Paulie. More power (not to mention speed) than Cano, who dropped Paulie really hard recently. True but he doesnt have enough power at WW to KO paulie. Paulie has a solid chin and decent movement. i really think paulie is more of a challenge than Rios. Rios didnt have a chance in hell against Pac, i think paulie has slightly more of a chance. still think Pac will score a UD but i think Paulie will suprise a few people by making it competitive, he wont just be a punching bag

Khans power is underrated, he'll hit harder at 147 He has enough to buzz and hurt Floyd Maidana tasted it throughout the fight, Peterson also tasted it, Zab and Paulie etc... Floyd can take a shot, but he is no Danny Garcia in terms of punch resistance, he can be hurt, Mosley had him, Ortiz also buzzed him Khan has the ability to land flush and hurt Floyd and finish him off Haters will be eating humble pie when they see Floyd hurt and running away from King Khan Floyd has excellent punch resistance, Mosley landed 1 unsighted punch and wobbled him bad, but floyd clinched, recovered and destroyed shane. in 46 fights hes only ccome close to going down twice, the 'knockdown' vs judah and one punch from shane. i think khans handspeed causes problems but khan has many weaknesses, mainly his inability to follow a game plan and his chin, khans got heart though. there is a real chance Money may get a KO in this fight, i think khan if he is going to win, will win by decision and outwork floyd. floyd cruised a bit against canelo in the latter rounds, if khan is in exellent condition he has a real chance to get some rounds under his belt in this fight

Pac isnt the other best in the world hes barely in the p4p top 10. Garcia, Lara, Bradley are all much more deserving at a shot at mayweather. i mean bradley is a severly underestimated welter, he had a close fight with pac and personally i think if he fights pac again he wins via decision. all this pac vs floyd hype is so 2009-2010. i personally thought canelo was going to be a tougher fight than pac would be for floyd. garcia doesnt get the respect he deserves, great boxer, decent chin, power, speed, he has the lot really. he looks like he could make the jump to 147 and compete. People getting to excited over this rios win, no-one is calling for alvarado mayweather so why is pac deserving of a shot now after one good recent fight? why is it floyds responsiblity to make this fight surely it isnt? hes top dog, p4p #1 etc. its pretty clear its neither fighter who is ducking the other. Pac is floyds mandatory but can you really see pacs team being ok with the standard 25% the mandatory usually gets? certainly not. this fight will never happen until manny leaves top rank. i think floyd has said hed sign pac for TMT so maybe thats the way to go!

as for the ganaro knockdown, i havnt seen it but apparently after a quick google etc. it was floyd taking a knee because he broke his hand! ok it was scored as a knock down. but lets be honest hes never be hurt and hit the canvas. infact im struggling to think of a time other than mosely and cotto hes looked hurt. floyds chin is definatly underrated. how many other people in history havent been knocked down and hurt after 46 fights.

??? Pacquiao is no way a big Welter. Floyd isn't a big Welterweight, and Pacquiao is even smaller.... i'm pretty sure Pacquiao would be at 140 if it was the glamour division, perhaps similar to what Broner could have done. i consider him a big welter because on fight night he normally weights over the WW limit. hence big WW. as for he is smaller than floyd what do you mean? weight wise it varies fight to fight i belive. floyd comes it at averagely between 147-151 apparently and pac is much the same. height wise i think there is a quater of an inch in floyds favour or something tiny like that.

Where is the link to the above OP? if Manny is floyds mandatory he is only entitled to 25% of a purse as he is the challenger. anyone think Pacs team will be up for that :sad2: Does anyone really want this fight anymore. there is better more challenging fights for floyd. how can pac beat rios and be the no.1 challenger? personally i think based on ppv numbers and general intrest, that bradley with his impressive resume and being 30-0 or whatever he is would be a bigger fight. two americans both considered the top 2 at WW despite pacs come back, facing off. would be huge, plus bradley has won a lot of fans over recently. hes humble, boxes brilliantly, can take a shot and doesnt mind going to war, hes kind of like a lesser version of what fans want Mayweather to be imo.

no he did not win alot of vacant titles..only one, the one with margarito...and how many times did he fight the actual champion? 4..he is a 4 time lineal champion..he is an ATG and earned his position he won his titles at 147 and 154 at catchweights....the simple fact you said "i think" makes me 100 percent sure you are someones alt cool i did look it up a few years ago. hes definatly an ATG, i just feel that whilst his CV is impressive if you disect it there is always ways to make it look less impressive, still thats probably the same with everyone. why does manny have such die hard fans, i mean it makes it difficult for a neutral fan to like him as i dont want to get wrongly associated with some of the idiots who hug his nuts! same with floyd mayweather. i still feel Pac needs one more big fight, i dont know why i personally think his wins over clottey, maragrito, rios, mosley. proved very little. and marquez deserves at least another win against pac, a draw and two pac wins isnt fair on JMM.

Floyd's able to fill out more, and has the longer reach. Weight doesn't mean ****. Manny had to ingest 7,000 calories a day when he was starting at WW. I HIHGLY doubt FLoyd would have to do that, and he trains non stop, 24/7. Manny doesn't. Even more reason to believe Floyd is obviously the naturally bigger man. all i know is facts i dont claim to know the calorie count of each guy, all i know is their 'unofficial' ring weights and they are the same-ish. you say pac stuggles to put weight on? i do doubt it because he has 'unofficially' weighed about 145 on fight night for a number of years so fighting at welter i think requiers little difference to his diet. all this is just assumptions, you assume manny struggles to maintain weight, you assume floyd doesnt. i know against canelo floyd woke up at 150lbs on the day of the fight suggesting he struggles to put weight on. i also know that floyd between fights stays at 150 ish lb. look i know you must be a massive pac fan because you know, or claim to know about calorie intake but please that cant be the basis of your manny is smaller argument as you have no idea what floyds intake is. plus you also dont know which one has more intense training regime, so who would require more calories. a better way of proving your argument would be to find out whos regime focuses more on building muscle rather than just conditioning. most atheletes eat crazy amount of cals, phelps for example has around 7000 als a day, khan is rumoured to have 7000 aswel. thats just to maintain weight as training is so intense, it seems likely floyds is the same. they are vitually the same size. but yes you are correct floyd has a longer reach.

anyway i dont really care who struggles more to make the scales. in the ring they weigh almost exactly the same so thats all we can prove. who struggles more to make the weight etc is all subjective. there literrally the same height with an quater of an inch difference. floyd has a bigger reach, their difference in 'size' is literally so negligible its irrelevent.

How legitimate do you consider pacs titles to be? from memory didnt he fight for a lot of vacant championships? i.e he moved up had 1 fight for a vacant championship and left the division, how many times did he actually fight the champion? and how many times did he fight the strongest champion in the weight class? im sure i looked this up once and it made the impressive 8 different weight classes look much less impressive? so does the legitimacy of his wins to becom champion count? or is that irrelevent and saying champion in 8 different weight classes is enough?

floyd trains all year round we know this. he does it too stay in shape, hence his longevity. he isnt some massive guy who has to train like a demon for a whole year just to maintain weight! its crazy. he likes to stay in shape, so when it comes to camp half the work is already done, he doesnt have to spend the first few weeks losing his chub. there the same size on fight night. please you make it sound like pac stuggles to make the weigh inn when he weights over 150lb on the night! if you want to use calorie intake as the basis of your argument you have to consider and have evidence of their workouts, the enviroment which they train etc. each fighter will have different require calorie intakes, depending on what they need in their diet. Alex ariza is well know for putting all his fighters on a 7k cal plan regardless of size. god i sound like a pac hater lol but im not its just annoying that you are alsmost making out pac is some small guy and floyd is massive!

i dont think we will. pac turned pro at 16? is that right or was it 17? not many fighters do turn pro so young, obviously he hadnt finished growing and now hes a pretty big Welter who can move up to Jnr Middle or whatever. i think Alvarez could move up a few weight classes. Pac was massive in the lower weights and used to struggle to make weight apparently, i think alvarez is similar, hes meant to be between 165-170 on fight night, considering his age and the fact he made 152 recently. i think he could potentially win titles in quite a few weightclasses. as a fighter though hes nothing like pac, its incredibly to see him KO cotto and hatton, he had incredibly power and seemed to be able to take a lot of punches. now hes definatly faded though now, his KO power isnt what it used to be (hasnt been for a while) i think if he could make 140 he'd dominate but at 147 and 154 he hasnt got the comparable power to stop people as he could. hes starting to look a bit worn now, but back in 08,09 he looked scary. its a shame we never saw Floyd v pac 4 years ago, would of been much closer than if it happened anytime soon.

And no, Floyd isn't the same. You just saying that, doesn't make it true. The guy trains year round, and doesn't take long breaks off from training. All of your evidence is based on what you have read or heard. you need to do some critical analysis, someones word is not credible, well not least academically. im just saying on unofficially weight on fight nights they are the same. Calorie intake is likely to be similar, you saying manny eats more is not acceptable to me as there is no reference or source how do i know you didnt make it up? micheal phelps 12,000 cals a day http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2177613/Michael-Phelps-12-000-calories-day-dont-doing-harm.html amir khan 6,800 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/boxing/8195257/Amir-Khans-strength-and-conditioning-coach-Alex-Ariza-reveals-the-Britons-training-regime.html manny pacqiuao 7,000 http://www.opposingviews.com/i/manny-pacquiao-s-coach-he-eats-7-000-calories-a-day nothing for floyd though. of course calorie intake is no proof of anything, humidity temperature etc could all increase calorie intake in a number of ways. point is you using that is no proof of anything. like i said want to find out if manny is smaller see who needs to do more weight trainng to add mass to make the scales :)

He did officially lose to bradley. it was a very close fight i actually watched it twice first time had pac winning by a round, second time a draw. larry merchants 10-2 in favour of pac is a disgrace imo

This is coming from a man who considered cotto undefeated when he faced him. By his logic, Canelo is still undefeated since he didn't fight floyd as his most comfortable weight. What on earth are you talking? Canelo made 152 at weigh in and was about 168lb on fight night, the same weight he always is, smh. catch weight was for weigh in not the fight. so he did lose at his most comfortable weight.

Been dropped twice. Dont know what you're talking about. Once against Genaro and another time against Judah cheers havnt seen genaro, was it legit? Judah was scored a slip man, but i agree although floyd slipped judah connected, floyd wasnt affected by it. similar to malinaggi vs judah knockdown.

why is pac too small but for mayweather its ok? there are almost exactly the same size . they are almost exactly the same size in terms of height and weight. floyd was 150lbs the morning of the fight with alvarez, 4lbs under the limit but nobody complained or said floyd is too small? despite alvarez weighing between 165-170 when he stepped in the ring. btw yes i know what weight pacqiuao started his career at and i know he is thought of as 'small' but in reality he is a comfortable 147lb fighter. who can easily make 154lb, against bradley wasnt he 150lb on the night?! with tim being 147lb on the fight night, thats the official weight aswel. floyd against canelo, floyd unofficially weight 147lbs in the ring. i think alvarez wins if he learnt anything from the mayweather fight and if he beats Lara. Manny doesnt have the power to hurt canelo, his speed will be a problem but i think mannys condition will be his downfall, if canelo can have a decent workrate for 12 rounds there is no way manny will win, pacqiuao can look impressive fighting in burst with quick flurries but i think constant pressure from a powerful guy like canelo will be too much. Pacquiao has never been great at avoiding punishment and i cant see him being illusive in this fight despite his speed advantage.

Corrales, and may ODLH. was ODLH the betting favourite? i know corrales was at the time

If I May the answer is simple. Rjj was making money in the USA regardless and dm was a legitimate threat. Both were happy to ignore each other and keep making money, same with JC. Neither wanted Roy an Roy didn't want then either. Unfortunately missed out on superstar status and mayweather/Tyson money by nit fighting any of these. Rjj lack of career defining or even competitive fights , stopped him from being a household name outside of the US.

Bradley Pac was much closer than people give credit for, Merchants scorecard was a disgrace. Pac showed nothing against Rios we didnt already know, infact is anyone suprise he didnt KO rios? its not like Rios has an iron chin, he has a decent chin es but not solid.. Last time pac against bradley what did Pac show us? he hasnt got the stamina to go 12 full rounds as he only fought the last 60 seconds at a high intensity after the first few rounds onwards. Bradley dominated the last 2 or 3 rounds. Pac never hurt Tim, Tim has an iron chin, he can eat Pacs punches all night. Tim bradley gives pacqiuao fits. Manny has been fed fighters which come forward and take punishment Hatton, Cotto, Marg, Rios etc. Pac isnt used to having to actually go find a fighter in the ring, he isnt used to being in a techinical match up. i dont see Pac winning, if this fight gets signed. i will be palcing a large amount on bradley. if anyone wants a bet let me know.