Prime Leonard v Prime RJJ - SMW - who wins?

Leonard was a welterweight. Super middleweight was not near his prime weight. Jones was a natural middle-super middle so the advantage goes to him.

RJJ may have had better reflexes than SRL but he was no slouch, add to that SRL having faster hands, for which there can be no doubt. Leonard was also a far better combination puncher and an all round fighter. P4P Leonard still had a better chin too, I don't see how Jones wins this. SRL stops him late. Period. If you think SRL had faster hands the prime Roy Jones jr you need a new brain

Prime Roy had it all, lightning fast feet,hands,reflexes, ring smarts, in his prime he is the most gifted fighter I ever saw. His only problem was that he was soo fast, that he never developed a great defense. Floyd developed the way he did because he is scared to get hit and not fast enourgh4. Roy ended up getting koéd because in hus prime he was soo fast that he looked like he was nemo in the matrix 1 . A motivated prime Roy jones = the GOAT

RJJ may have had better reflexes than SRL but he was no slouch, add to that SRL having faster hands, for which there can be no doubt. Leonard was also a far better combination puncher and an all round fighter. P4P Leonard still had a better chin too, I don't see how Jones wins this. SRL stops him late. Period. How is there no doubt Leonard has faster hands? Roy had lightweight hand speed. Roy could win because he was a freak athlete with a lot of skill who was very, very hard to deal with. He knew exactly how to fully utilize his tremendous physical gifts. H2H, there are very few fighters, if any, harder to beat than prime Roy Jones. And Leonard can be outboxed.

I get that, but I'm just saying there's a flaw in that logic. If you let RJJ keep all his attributes, but then weight wasn't an issue, he'd still win. His main attributes were him being faster than everyone, better reflexes than anyone. Power compared to his weight class was great. He was virtually untouchable, and he could move around the ring like a cat. If weight wasn't an issue, than RJJ still wins in a H2H. You have to give him the same attributes that make him special at HIS weight class. RJJ may have had better reflexes than SRL but he was no slouch, add to that SRL having faster hands, for which there can be no doubt. Leonard was also a far better combination puncher and an all round fighter. P4P Leonard still had a better chin too, I don't see how Jones wins this. SRL stops him late. Period.

That's right. Leonard was the real original catchweight king. That's a mightily impressive feat given the prevalence of such bouts decades before he was even born. But then you'd have known that if you weren't such a newb.

How about at 160?A weight of 160 would be much better for Leonard than 168. Jones was not at 160 very long and he peaked at 168 and 175. Leonard was a big welterweight or a small middleweight and he beat an older Hagler in a close fight that could have gone either way. At 160 I think Jones would win but it would be a close fight. A prime Jones might be drained at 160 and Leonard was not a full sized middleweight so 160 is not a perfect weight for either man. Leonard at his best was a great fighter but I think Jones at his best was just a little bit better. Jones was a much bigger man so it's hard to find a weight for them to fight at that is fair for both of them.

Leonard isn't prime at middleweight. I think Jones beats him and maybe even stops him. But as he's proven before you can't count out an even slightly past prime SRL.When it comes to facing a prime time Roy Jones Jr......yes you can easily count sugar out...He's just too small....and Roy was just that amazing..

Roy was the Ayotollah of anything above Middleweight. He wins this easy. This honestly is a horrible comparison...even as a fantasy matchup....Smh can't you be more creative than this? fcking hell.....

Leonard isn't prime at middleweight. I think Jones beats him and maybe even stops him. But as he's proven before you can't count out an even slightly past prime SRL.

Obviously at 168 Jones wins but the pound for pound debate is much more interesting. Leonard's dossier is much, much better and he's deservedly rated far higher than Jones. But in terms of a head to head, pound for pound battle I have a hard time picking anyone over Roy Jones Jr. at his best.

That is easy. Leonard's best fighting weight in his prime was 147 to maybe 154. He was never a 168 pounder and when he fought Hearns and Duran in 168 pound title fights he made them agree to a top weight of 164 pounds or no fight. That's right. Leonard was the real original catchweight king. Roy Jones in his prime was unbeatable at 168 pounds. He was the best super middleweight in history in my opinion and I think most fans and experts would agree. A prime Jones vs. a prime Leonard at 168 would be a mismatch and Leonard would be KOed in a few rounds. How about at 160?

That is easy. Leonard's best fighting weight in his prime was 147 to maybe 154. He was never a 168 pounder and when he fought Hearns and Duran in 168 pound title fights he made them agree to a top weight of 164 pounds or no fight. That's right. Leonard was the real original catchweight king. Roy Jones in his prime was unbeatable at 168 pounds. He was the best super middleweight in history in my opinion and I think most fans and experts would agree. A prime Jones vs. a prime Leonard at 168 would be a mismatch and Leonard would be KOed in a few rounds.

If you're talking about 2 guys at completely different weights fighting in THEIR PRIMES, it must mean this is a p4p contest, meaning that the weight of the fight is irrelevant. So, with that in mind, prime v prime, Leonard beats RJJ, any day of the week, Jones speed may startle Leonard at times and his reflexes will require sublime timing but Leonard adjusts half way through the fight and stops RJJ any round past the 9th or 10th. H2H, there are very few fighters above Roy Jones. He wasn't just speed, he had the skills to use that speed and control his opponent. A somehow possible p4p matchup between a prime Leonard and Roy would be very, very hard for Leonard to deal with.

Remember! They were 15 round fights. If both were the same natural size, Leonard would win a 15 round decision. Jones has never seen the 13th, 14th, and 15th rounds and that is a question mark on him.

I'm keeping track of what you guys are discussing and it's interesting but may I clear up that I selected the weight, first SMW and then changed to MW as I wanted to make it a realistic potential matchup, more specifically each fighter in their 'peak' in terms of age, physical capabilities, punch resistance, speed etc. P4P is I think too unrealistic, I wanted to make it a real potential matchup at a weight where perhaps it wouldn't be the absolute best weight for either fighter, but they would be fighting in their peak conditions in terms of the criteria I mentioned.

Just like how I think you can't judge Wlad at HW, because if weights weren't an issue, then that doesn't make sense. The reason why he's so effective is because of his size. I don't see any lighter weight fighters, overpowering there opponents, jabbing them to death, then hugging and wearing them out once they get close. Does this make sense to you?

But that's the whole point of p4p discussions, without weight being an issue, who wins based on talent, skill, speed, power etc. It's not about condensing anyone into other weights or making them bigger, it's simply weight NOT BEING AN ISSUE. That's the whole reason why the term p4p came about, the question that was being answered was: can Ray Robinson, with his skill, power, speed, ring IQ etc beat any fighter on the planet if weight wasn't an issue? Since then, the tradition has carried on and the only way we can have a fantasy fight between SRL and RJJ is if we are talking about both men in a p4p sense. A prime SRL never fought above 154, a prime RJJ never fought below 168 (imo the version that beat Bhop was not prime). So even in terms of "Fantasy" fights, this just wouldn't work when you bring in the term prime, because both men were primed at vastly different weights. I get that, but I'm just saying there's a flaw in that logic. If you let RJJ keep all his attributes, but then weight wasn't an issue, he'd still win. His main attributes were him being faster than everyone, better reflexes than anyone. Power compared to his weight class was great. He was virtually untouchable, and he could move around the ring like a cat. If weight wasn't an issue, than RJJ still wins in a H2H. You have to give him the same attributes that make him special at HIS weight class.

But that's the whole point of p4p discussions, without weight being an issue, who wins based on talent, skill, speed, power etc. It's not about condensing anyone into other weights or making them bigger, it's simply weight NOT BEING AN ISSUE. That's the whole reason why the term p4p came about, the question that was being answered was: can Ray Robinson, with his skill, power, speed, ring IQ etc beat any fighter on the planet if weight wasn't an issue? Since then, the tradition has carried on and the only way we can have a fantasy fight between SRL and RJJ is if we are talking about both men in a p4p sense. A prime SRL never fought above 154, a prime RJJ never fought below 168 (imo the version that beat Bhop was not prime). So even in terms of "Fantasy" fights, this just wouldn't work when you bring in the term prime, because both men were primed at vastly different weights. I understand that, but I'm just saying there's a flaw in that logic. Roy Jones at his weight was the fastest, one of the strongest, had crazy pop, reflexes were off the charts, and was virtually unhittable. Give him those same attributes, but at the same weight as Sugar Ray? I'd still lean towards RJJ.

In real life, you can't do that though. It's what made Roy so special. If you condensed Roy into a fit and trim WW, then wouldn't he be even faster, and deadlier? Would you even be able to touch him? Just like you can't make a hypothetical with Tyson. What made him special is the fact that he was a HW, and he was so fast, quick, and powerful. And just like you can't turn Pacquiao into a HW, and try to hypothesize that. If you made a HW Pacquiao, he might kill every HW in the ring. But that's the whole point of p4p discussions, without weight being an issue, who wins based on talent, skill, speed, power etc. It's not about condensing anyone into other weights or making them bigger, it's simply weight NOT BEING AN ISSUE. That's the whole reason why the term p4p came about, the question that was being answered was: can Ray Robinson, with his skill, power, speed, ring IQ etc beat any fighter on the planet if weight wasn't an issue? Since then, the tradition has carried on and the only way we can have a fantasy fight between SRL and RJJ is if we are talking about both men in a p4p sense. A prime SRL never fought above 154, a prime RJJ never fought below 168 (imo the version that beat Bhop was not prime). So even in terms of "Fantasy" fights, this just wouldn't work when you bring in the term prime, because both men were primed at vastly different weights.