Lewis was out. Holding your hands up isnt enough to let the fight continue when you can't stand on your feet. And yes, I have also seen fights in which referees have let fighters continue in similar situations. But the bottom line is if you know ANYTHING about boxing, then you know the stoppage was just and right. Plain and simple.
Lewis didn't have his legs underneath him and that is more than enough to stop the fight.
If you're looking to stop it. The ref has a mando eight to work with to take a look. Ref didn't. Stoppage sucked. It was justifiable. Doesn't make it right.
I just re-watched the upset Lennox Lewis vs Oliver McCall I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBEe_NSN7IU#t=19m11s
and I just realised again how biased HBO was in the commentary of this fight. Lewis was clearly and fairly counted out after the knockdown, his legs were gone, he was wobbling all over the place. So- the referee did the right thing according to the rules. And what does HBO do? They talk 10 minutes about how the ref shouldn't have stopped the fight and they insinuate that Don King paid off the referee and all that crazy stuff.
How can ANYBODY in this world watch the ending of this fight and say the referee was "totally wrong" in stopping this fight?
HBO always had their agenda, whatever that agenda is in every particular case. But one thing is for sure: they never cared about the truth and they never will.
How could he be counted out when he was up around five? Ref didn't even finish the eight. The ref gave a quick hook and we've seen a TON of fights go on with guys more hurt than that (for instance, Wlad was allowed to get up a few times with Sanders; Grant was WAY more hurt and allowed to go on and eventually win against Golota). There was also a lot of behind the scenes politics floating around that fight in the context of Mike getting out of prison soon and King needing a belt to work with. It was what it was. Lewis might have got drilled again, but he should have been given better consideration than that.
HBO might have shown house fighter bias. That was still a pretty quick hook.
how did the stoppage suck if Lewis was falling right into the referee after he waved it off? Without the help of the ref, Lewis would have fallen down again AFTER the fight was stopped.
He was collecting his balance. The referee didn't even take a hard look and he didn't use all the time available. If you liked the stop, cool. I never did. Criticizing it is hardly evidence of bias. It was a questionable stop and fighters have been hurt worse, in fights without a belt on the line, and allowed to go on (and many times win).
Like I said, he was rocked so it can be JUSTIFIED. It was still quick and politically convenient. I've seen it many times. Never liked it.
A fighter who makes it to his feet should at least be given a chance after the 1st knockdown.
I do find it curious that Don King was prominent in both of Lennox's losses and the bogus Draw against Holyfield. The guy is a snake and there are rumours he poisoned Wlad against Brewster and Foreman in Zaire.
How was King prominent in Rahman I? He didn't have Rahman then. He got him after and promoted the rematch. Lewis's problems for Rahman were about filming Oceans 11 and other distractions.
Can we all agree that Lucas Matthysse should be undefeated?
He absolutely beat the brakes off both Judah and Alexander.
I didn't have any problem with the Judah decision. Close fight.
Well I just said that's his only problem, that he's the WBC champion. He's fighting weak opposition for a champion. But as far his age and amateur inexperience, he's actually being brought perfectly. He might fighting Mayweather at 22/23 years old. I mean even Angulo is a big step. Have patience.
I agree with this a lot. That WBC belt is a joke. I ignore it and look at him for what he is. He's just moved past prospect to contender. He's not a champion but he puts mad asses in seats. He'll step up sooner than later.
Yea but they are lower weight fighters and completely unknown. This is easily the Upset of the year but Lopez-Ortiz should win it
I think there is enough knowledge among the prominent selectors at Ring, ESPN, and here to overcome that. Lopez-Ortiz isn't in the same ballpark as the Jaro win.
Fight of the Year - Marquez-Pacquaio
KO of the year - Marquez
Fighter of the Year - Marquez
Trainer of the year - Nacho
This but I'd have Garcia as Trainer.
Wonjongkam-Jaro is the Upset of the Year by a canyon.
He was counted till 9 and Lewis almost fell on top of the referee
He tottered but was standing (wobbly) without support as the ref held his hands up right at the last. He seemed to stop counting around seven, didn't keep any distance, and just had his hands up. Ref got excited. Never stepped back and NEVER asked him to come forward to get a real look. Just months before, on another King show, he gave Terry Norris all a chance in a similar circumstance (not as bad balance wise but he didn't have 6'5 to balance) against Simon Brown.
Norris was with King.
He scored a 1st round ko against this same guy a few years ago. He is his 30's and getting old quickly, flyweights usually don't have long lasting careers.
Getting old? He's clearly ancient at this point. Should have let it go after Jaro but no one does that. Lot of miles on those tires.
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=34051&cat=boxer&pageID=1
Man, that guy went south quickly.
When you're shot, you're shot. Stick a fork in a long career.
Its getting ridiculous, and the ref is obviously biased toward him. If Moreno fought like Mares, he most likely would have been DQ'd
He lost a point for trying to avoid getting head speared as it was. Still came back for his best round of the fight.
The 89 scores are in my fightscorecollector site - http://fightscorecollector.blogspot.com
30 odd press scores , over 50 fan scores from the forums and twitter
69 press/fans had Mares winning
10 press/fans had Moreno winning
10 press/fans had it a draw
My card read read 114-113 Mares
Thanks for all your scores and please keep posting your scores in the RBR threads
ps: Thanks to Boxingscenes Jake Donovan too for letting me do this on here
And props to you for putting in the work.
nonito donaire will climb the ring for the 4th time this year to prove once more than he’s the best fighter in and around his division, against the tough mexican slugger jorge arce on dec. 15 in houston. donaire is still trying to heal a ripped knuckle which he first tore in sparring and re-opened after dropping nishioka during their fight. i personally think it's a good thing donaire is keeping active but not so good in terms of not fighting elite opposition in their prime. (mares & rigo, where you at?)
donaire is arguably the most complete fighter in the entire lower weight division and has won all his bouts in the last 11 years (sole defeat 2nd pro fight by UD 5rds) as well as winning the most awards for knock of the year.
as for arce, in his last 10 bouts, he's won 8 of them, 1 NC and the other was a split draw, but his all go no quit aggressive fighting style is sure electric to watch making arce somewhat a p4p draw.
i forcesee an exciting fight between doanire-arce. arce is known to engage in all-out brawls that could play well into donaire’s sharp, counter-punching abilities who can set up a knock out win. if donaire was able to brutally beat an undefeated darchinyan from his senses, just imagine what he might do to arce. i have donaire winning by TKO round 8 after multiple knock downs.
your thoughts?
This fight is an absolute joke. Donaire will win whenever he wants and could end it within a couple rounds. Arce has been exceptionally well managed over the years, snared the WV2 win amidst losses to pretty much everyone else with a serious pulse over the last decade or so, and always fun to watch, but he's so outclassed here it's not funny.
This is all business.
He takes Moreno's spot at number 9. He should get the Donaire fight but Donaire's speed will be a problem for him.
I think Mares could fit in around six, though I'm far more impressed with what he did last night (even in scoring for Moreno by a point) and in the last two or so years than what Martinez has done the last two years. Moreno can stay near the bottom. They're both still among the best in the game.
So it was the ref punching Moreno? Reminds me of the people crying about Cortez in the Hatton fight.
The ref really wasn't that bad last night. That kind of fight can be hard to call and Mares makes a lot look incidental (I think a lot of it is).
Donaire all the way but its going to be a hard great fight for both.
What will remotely be hard about this fight for Donaire? This is Gatti-Mayweather redux in terms of competition.
Mares IS dirty but he's the kind of dirty I can live with. He does it all so fast and seamless to what else he doing he makes it hard to call and makes a lot look incidental. He's just an animal in there.
Lad's a certified beast.His conditioning,intensity and commitment to the art of body punching is one to admire.Quite scary to see a guy sustain that level of intense aggression without showing the slightest hint of fatigue.Guy brings a significant amount of volume in his output,but he never wastes his punches and always throws well-placed,damaging shots.Very polished,but still incredibly exciting to watch.
And :hail: Zaleta for his retard-like tenacity.
He's actually much sharper and more refined than Tony was. He is rare...a high volume pressure fighter who also stays straight, short, and accurate. Dude could be something.
I had Marquez winning about 8-2-2. Both rounds he lost points I thought he won. It was closer and competitive. Not worth watching more than once or twice.
I had it for Moreno 114-113. I gave Moreno 1, 3, 7, 8, 10, 12. I gave Mares 2, 4, 5-6. I had 9 and 11 even. 6-4-2 for Moreno. No issue with the fight going the other way. I thought both guys showed world class stuff. Ignoring the Jen-Kin abortion, the fight itself was really good.
Mares beat Moreno up more in the first half of the fight, but it was very close on a rounds basis through 12. I thought Mares won 4 of the next five rounds after losing the first but he didn't clearly win very many (if any) rounds in the second half of the fight. I had 7-12 4-0-2 for Moreno. I could see some swings there, but Moreno controlled most of the back half. It was some gutsy stuff after he looked ready to go. No issue with Mares winning. He earned it in a really, really good fight.
Nice to see two guys that good actually do it in their prime. Kudos.
idk roman looked vulnarable in there tonight. And he would be moving up in weight
He's a HIGH quality fighter. Both guys looked good and occasionally vulnerable tonight in wins. It's a great, great fight.
Another question cliff, among great fights this year so far like salido-lopez, rios-avarado, sta cruz-zaleta, this fight and maybe mares-moreno, which one would you pick as FOTY?
I know you have to review the fights but at the top of your head which one is it?
Dude, this wasn't even the best fight on its card. Gonzalez-Estrada was even better. Rios-Alvarado is still tops.
viloria fought a fellow elite fighter. gonzalez fought a good prospect stepping up way up in class. I would like to see roman fight a tittle holder to see how he looks in the weight first,
I think Roman's foe just proved he belonged. Dude was very good. Nobody can step up until they do.
What a freaking awesome night on Wealth. Gonzalez-Estrada was awesome and Viloria was as good a near-shutout (I gave Marquez one round) as you'll ever see. EVERY time Viloria was hurt, Marquez got dumped. Wow.
Great night.
from the beggining brian was a roller coaster ride if he was more consistent he would be something really special...
It's why real judgement comes at the end of a career. He's on a hell of a consistent run right now.