you give me a link to peoples opinions, thats one sports writer, when i have read other sports writers stating SHAVERS is the most powerful, others saying FOREMAN. The point still stands, Ali had the greatest Chin of any heavyweight, the most condition of any heavyweight, if he can take shots to the head from shavers and foreman Marciano isn't going to drop him... if he can take 8 rounds of foreman pummeling the body, marciano isn't going to drop him. Its not going to be like rumble and the jungle when Ali lost his ability to move fluidly in the ring, marciano having slower footwork would not be able to CUT OFF ali... and when he did Ali would absorb his punishment and simply tie him up. Marciano may have been powerful but he didn't have the handspeed of say frazier, and like foreman going from body to head will be in VAIN. Ali will Tie him up, move around the periphery and pick him off... im not saying Ali was invincible, he could be beaten, never 3/5 times in his prime, but marciano is not the type of fighter that would beat Ali. Ali fought well against agressors in his prime, they would move forward and he would control the range and counter punch... someone like Louis would give a Prime Ali trouble.
Foreman lost his punch at 5 rounds. Since he didn't train for 12 rounders, He lost his strength and his punch usually at 5. According to all of the boxers He faced, Marciano could bruise them and create large welts on there arms, shoulders, and stomach with one single shot. He could knock guys down with arm punches.
On top of that, he fought at a MIDDLEWEIGHT's pace, thus He would be able to stop Ali.
Ali is made out to be some sort of God that could never be hit. The fact is that Rocky Marciano was one of the most vicious punchers ever. He had VICIOUS body punches, and he would of worked the body and TKO'D Ali once Ali dropped his gloves. Ali always had trouble with the swarming, slugger types, and Rocky was the best at swarming his opponent.
Ali had trouble with Frazier, but Rocky had a better chin, and a bigger punch.
Frazier was so predictable with his head movement when he fought Ali, that's why he always got peppered with jabs, and right crosses.
I think the fact that Marciano, who is arguably the biggest puncher to ever grace boxing, and the fact that he is a swarmer would affect Ali's shot of beating him. If you look at the fight with Frazier, Frazier was really a one-punch trick. His left hook was a devestating shot, but he did not use it like Marciano did to set up his right hand. Frazier had a good right hand no doubt, but it wasn't on Marciano's level.
Marciano was relentless with the way he fought. He had so much heart, so much courage that eventually He would get to Ali on the ropes and just beat on the arms and shoulders until Ali dropped his hands and Marciano would eventually knock him out.
Willie Pep once won a round without even throwing a single punch. He had extraordinary defense.
Pernell Whitaker also comes to mind. He had a bad chin, bad power but He still always won fights by UD. He had great upper body movement along with great foot speed.
Benny Leonard also comes to mind. I remember reading an article about him He used to always say "didn't even muss up my hair".
Jack Johnson also comes to mind.
To be fair, Mosley's a good fighter he has just been terrible unlucky in his career. He has shown that he is prone to lose to fighters with outstanding jabs, and he definetly shouldn't of moved up to 154 as he proved he does not have the power to keep guys honest. He was one of the strongest, fastest, most powerful 135 lber ever but 154 isn't right for him. He doesn't have the power to fight the big boys.
147 seems to be a fairly strong weight for him. I would favour him to beat Vargas if the fight go's as planned (which it should).
Everyone can say what they want but Hopkins CANNOT start with a bang and come out smokin'.
Bernard's talking like He is going to knock him out, but once the fight starts it's going to be safety first once again. I personally think this will be Hopkins last fight, and He will go out on a winning note.
He's going to need all the tricks of the trade to beat the younger Taylor but I think he can do it.
Hopkins confused Taylor the first fight and nothing shows me he won't do it again.
nate campbell isnt in floyds division, kelley sucks, harris is garbage, mosley is a shadow of his former self and witter is decent.
floyd would get ripped apart for taking ANY of these fights
Nice logic peewee.
And Mitchell and Gatti are any better then the names you just mentioned?
Don't try and twist it into me talking about your opinion on that fight, I never brought anything up of the sort.
I said you're constantly hating on Floyd at every given opportunity, and always implying he's taking the easy rout and insinuating that's the way it will be for the rest of his career.
You can think whatever you want about him as a person, that doesn't change what he's done as a fighter.
As it is right now, he has proven a considerable amount in several weight classes from where he started at 28 years old.
My only mention of Hatton is how much praise you constantly have for him when he has virtually one impressive accomplishment on his entire resume, and then are so quick to write off Floyd like he's a waste.
We don't have a lot left to say other than 2006 will settle this little debate we're having.
Again, I look forward to returning with "I told you so's".
:D
Bozo.
I'm not into your kind of debate. You're blatantly biased and you easily write off Hatton, and many other fighters just because you don't like them.
I look forward for these ego's not being able to settle aside there differences and fight on equal terms.
YAWN!
Who didn't Hopkins beat at Middleweight during his run?
Because Calzaghe had a LIST of top ranked middleweights that he some how managed to NOT fight.
Hopkins was limited to who was around during his reign, but the longevity speaks for itself.
Way too critical here Scap.
Not necessary.
Fair point but all of the icons in the sport for the most part have great resumes. You can't say the same thing about Hopkins.
Nice ability to debate without slinging insults.
:rolleyes:
I'm assuming Gatti will be a name again when it's announced he's Hatton's next fight?
You are one to talk.
Gatti's not a name, and will never be a name. I don't like how Hatton is fighting Gatti but Hatton has the ability to steal Gatti's fans so I think it's a good move on his part money-wise.
Be prepared to eat your words Bozo. Judah - Mayweather won't be signed.
no one has talked bout tis since I registerd hurrr. Not in ma knowledge. AND from ta look of things you registered 3 weeks ago, so don't be mad at me.
You have 4k more posts then me, yet you still talk about utter crap.
Give your head a shake small fry.
Your right Manny P this is a legit thread...for 12 year olds.
I remember saying the same thing to my dad (Im dead serious)...I said, "Dad if Tyson hadnt reached for his moutpiece he would have beaten the count."
My dad would then look at me and laugh...he would then say "you'll understand how foolish your words are when your a bit older"
That was some good stuff by my pop and Manny although Im not your dad the same exact advice applies...
Classic post.
Zab has the best chance because of the angles he punches off of.
He lets his shots fly with a lot of speed, from all over the place.
But, I still think no one up to 147 can beat Mayweather.
Mayweather is getting that invincible persona about him and it's tough to see him losing to anyone at this point. If Floyd's going to lose, I think it's most likely going to be Hatton.
A fight with undisputed welterweight champion Zab Judah would bring the odds to a much closer level, BUT I don't see it.
I'm not into your subject twisting style of debating either.
You seem to think that you're Mr. Calm and collected, yet this all stems from your unwarrented dislike of Floyd.
I brought up Hatton because it was relevent to contrast the contradiction of your discontent with Floyd's opposition when you're a fan of Hatton.
You took that and tried to twist it into me hating Hatton, or me 'writing off' Hatton in a fight agaisnt Floyd.
Two things that had nothing to do with the conversation.
I will stick to discussing boxing, but when I see something I don't like (IE your bias agaisnt Mayweather) I'll point it out.
If you want to engage in discussion about it, I'll oblige.
That's what happned here, but when it was clearly illustrated that a lot of your disdane for Floyd is biased and unwarrented, you got upset.
Not my fault.
It's all repitition and personal invenctive with you.
You're not debating, your BULLYING. There's a difference.
I'm into having a good debate, but if it's always going to turn into personal digs about my 'dislike' for Mayweather then I'm not up for it. That's childish and I just don't expect it.
I'm a good poster in my own right, just as you are, and just as other guys here are.
Next time I'll just save myself the bother of debating with you. We don't get anywhere and you usually just resort to personal attacks.
That was really the only way that Hopkins could have competed like he did at 40.
It was to his advantage to lull Taylor into that pace, to make him aprehesive, waste nervous energy, and try to counter him.
You saw in 11 that if Hopkins had tried to go toe to toe his lack of reflex would have made it to his disadvantage.
As ugly and boring as it was (I wasn't entertained either) it was the only way Hopkins could have fought as effectivly as he did while taking Taylor out of his game.
I agree it's time for him to hang them up. He's got nothing left to prove, and those two losses were very competitve for a 40 year old. He has an accomplished career and nothing to be ashamed of.
I agree.
Taylor is an HBO piggy bank as far as I'm concerned. I had a funny feeling about this fight, and I thought Taylor would most likely win due to a shoddy decision but I wen't with my heart and picked Hopkins to win his last hurrah.
Hopkins had a great career and it's time to hang them up. He has no options at this point imo. He is going to get beaten again most likely by a younger, hungrier fighter unless He matches himself up against an older, slower opponent like himself.
I assume you rpseaking o f Mr. Zoo being old, slow and weak?
Sure it is easy to say that now but were you picking Hatton to beat KT?
Hatton is the 140 KING, Diego, JL and Floyd have all owned at 1 time the 135 pound division...
Will Miguel Cotto ever own a division or will he be sort of like Fernando Vargas who can beat Shibata Flores/Castiejllo for a belt but cant beat THE MAN?
Fair point scap.
No one picked Hatton to beat Tszyu, and once Tszyu loses they call him aging, and slow. Really erks me!
Tu,
Your Mayweather hating is really tiresome.
It was clear long ago your agenda is to hate on him and give him as little credit as possible.
Your laughable assertion that he's "chosing the easiest path to Greatness" already ignores his titles in 3 weight classes and victories over several pound for pound and world class fighters.
All your amo is based on what YOU "think" he is or isn't going to do next.
I've seen you ALL OVER Hatton's nuts at several opportunities.
For someone that's constantly cutting down Mayweather, it's ironic for you to so strongly tout a guy with ONE meaningful victory in the one weight class he's won a title in.
Floyd is young, and will dominate for years to come.
A few years from now I hope you're still around because you're going to be proven wrong.
Look, Bozo.
I don't call what Floyd is doing right now "negotiating". He is the one to blame with all of these big fights supposedly not coming off. I am a firm believer in his abilities, but how can you show how good you are when you're not fighting the best?
What matchups is he seriously seeking? He throws names around and then prices himself out by demanding more than the lion's share. I don't consider that an honest effort to make a fight, so in my book he gets no credit for that.
HBO is cradling Floyd's balls just like they were with Roy Jones Jr. He's saying He'll fight anyone, anywhere but the price is never right for him.
He got his freebie wins over the lower top 10 140 lbers and Gatti, it's time for a step up.
I just said the exact same thing in another post of mine.
Since you made a thread about it, I'll re-post it.
For my part, I rate as him a Chavez-like champion. His challengers weren't great, he had one remarkable performance against Tito (a lighter man moving up), and doesn't rank among the great middleweights. You can argue pro and con whether he won the fight, but the fact remains that Bernard's pertormances have been clinical and uninspired of late, and he was due to have such nights when they didn't break right. He didn't get the shaft, he got the short end of the stick.
ill say hagler won, i think he didnt enough to win alot of the close rounds, but im going to take into account that im biased
i voted for hagler, but it was probably a draw
It's reasonable to say Hagler one. Hagler is my favorite/most respected fighter of all time but I still say if he didn't give away those first 3 rounds He would of won.
I haven't read the articles but I think Kesslers a very good fighter.
He's a big, powerful guy who does everything pretty well, and in my opinion would give both Calzaghe and Lacy a hell of a fight. I just hope his career doesn't stagnate over in Europe like his compatriot Thomas Damgaard, who is fighting Gatti next for his big chance.
With all of thee good super middles around they should be fighting each other.