Riddick Bowe
Ike Beabuchi
Mike Tyson
and i believe if Gatti had started to box like he did against ward in the 2nd fight earlier in his career he would of been different
Gatti did box early in his career. You can't win at featherweight unless you can box (Hamed learned that eventually when he got the balls to sign up for the lesson). Gatti's problem was that he threw the boxing out for the big Rocky Balboa paydays and became a bleeder with a left hook.
I've gotta go with Holyfield, but I'm a sucker for hard work vs natural talent and a shitty attitude. Holyfield was at the top of 2 weightclasses not just one. As a former light heavyweight and a very small heavyweight no one expected holyfield to just get into Tyson's chest and kick his ass. Everyone thought that he would have to box like Buster. Holyfield didn't outbox Mike, he beat him up. He lost badly to Lennox, but he was way beyond his prime and Lennox was a new era of superheavyweights; Hoyfield got lucky with Bowe.
Tysons the best, followed by Holyfield, followed by Lewis. Lewis didnt have the chin needed to beat a prime Tyson and i see him falling like the great Larry Holmes did to Tyson.
Man, Holmes was as old as most people's grandpa when he fought Tyson and still went what? 11 or was it 10? Holmes was the blueprint for Buster Douglas' systematic destruction of Mike. Holmes would have done that if that fight were 10 yrs earlier.
just honorable mention: I would say that Holmes is the most under-rated heavyweight champ of all time. Holmes would have beaten Marciano, Louis, Johnson in 1 day like Dempsey's fair shit.
Joe Louis was a far better heavyweight than Ali in my opinion and I rank ali in my top 3.
I'm from Louisville and I'm not even the greatest Greatest fan. I wouldn't go so far as to say he's the #1 heavyweight, but he would rank higher than Louis. Ever heard of 'the bum of the month club.' Louis really had no one to fight except Schmeling and some old washed up fighters from the previous era. Ali did have Frasier and Foreman both of whom would have never lost a fight except against Ali and in Frasier's case against the other above mentioned.
i figure mosleys is going to have the incentive to let his hands go in this one.vargas has looked piss to poor last few times out. and could be fighting hurt.mentaly or physically.
everythings riding on this one for mosley.hope to see a more confident mosley throwing combos and showing devistating bodywork on vargas.
I think that Mosely will and should just headhunt. Since Trinidad, Vargas has been wobbled in nearly every fight he's had even by guys who had single digit knockout %s. Vargas' brain can't take it no more. Mosely by KO whenever he is able to press Fernando's button, which will be often because Vargas is a brave man, maybe to the point of foolishness.
Judah will never beat Mayweather in anybody's wildest dreams and because of his weak chin I would give Gatti a very real chance against him. So yeah, I would like to see Gatti vs Judah, that might be interesting, but PBF vs Judah is gonna be about as interesting as PBF vs Gatti.
On the subject of Hill as an HOFer, it is true that he is much better than many who are in but his style is so pure boxing and not the kind of flash that people who don't appreciate the science like. I would like to see him in, but I'm not sure he will get there. The average guy on the street probably doesn't even know him as the olympian who won a title and defended it quite a few times, they'll only know him as the guy that RJJ ko'ed with a well placed shot to the short ribs. I've always liked Hill, since I was a kid. He's possibly my father's fav fighter besides Larry Holmes, so I saw him a lot.
What spells doom for DLH is the fact that he will try to fight Floyd using Floyd's style. That's a fatal mistake. If DLH wants to have a chance, he needs to get back to his old style. He has to fight the way he fought as a jr. welterweight and welterweight.
I agree, and that is pretty much as I said, pre-Trinidad.
Yeah, I'm kind of afraid of that too.
It all depends on him using his attributes and fighting the right fight. If he chases Floyd, or lets him get close, fuck it, turn the TV off lol
The DLH of today really minimizes himself by trying to be the mexican that mexicans say he isn't or something like that. Since he got robbed in the Trinidad fight he has been really afraid of just winning rounds and tries to fight more than box. He's not a fighter, he's a boxer and not any less mexican for it. You would think that public opinion would be beyond a guy who has been able to accomplish all that he has, but ...
I think that DLH could put up a very good fight, if he boxes. No one expects someone to outbox PBF and that's exactly why it will be so effective. If he uses his reach and jabs Floyd all night and hopefully makes him lunge and reach to score past the jab and then gets him with that left hook, he could do very well. But I honestly think that DLH will feel that he is bigger than Floyd and will just chase him trying to get to the body and lose a controversial (to some) decision.
Yeah no kidding, he really seemed to become aware of pleasing the judges after that Trinidad fight. I personally think that's why he lost the second Mosley fight, he tried to fight it out in the second half of the fight and let Mosley score. If he does that with Floyd it's over IMO. He's a very fast fighter, but to me it seems that with Oscar it's not actual reflexes, he just has a lot of fast-twitch muscle fibers I guess. Floyd however has great reflexes and speed too. Man I'd love to see this fight happen lol
Exactly. Like you, I would love to see this fight. I'm afraid that weight will be as much an issue as anything though. When I see DLH at 147 then I'll let myself get excited about the rumors.
I don't have many points, as you can see, that's all there is, I would bet them. Seeing your avatar, I'd take you up on Calzaghe as well. Looks like you are keen on haymakers to me :D .
morales would not be a good choice for this probably because you wont find a lot of information. you would do best with older fighters back when they used to actually cover boxing some. joe louis would be good but maybe too generic. it depends how deep you want to dig for info. jack johnson would be a great choice and pbs just did a great special on him called unforgiveable blackness. 4 hours i think. and james earl jones played him in the great white hope. jack johnson is a good choice and many mainstream people wouldnt know him. and there is relatively a lot of info on him.
But Johnson really didn't fight the best of opposition. For all that he did by becoming the first black hw champ, he took it all away by refusing to fight black fighters. There are probably droves of black fighters during the Johnson era who could've been 'somebody' and weren't because of Johnson. Johnson beat a lot of old white guys who used to be good and then even more bums. He was like a sideshow of boxing really.
i dont see why anybody thinks briggs can beat anybody. he lost to jameel mccline who sucks. got a draw against botha who sucks. he lost to the old foreman even though they gave it to him to make foreman retire. tua would knock briggs out within 6 i think. peter too.
I'm no fan of Briggs, but I believe that anyone who can jump rope and work the mits a bit could school Peter. He's an over-hyped bum.
whatever, it is still a very good subject for boxing history. and i think he was more than just a mere sideshow. he had to agree to carry many of those white fighters several rounds to be allowed to even fight them. he was an important historical figure and very important to boxing. he helped pave the way for other black athletes. and somehow managed to not get killed even though he was known to sleep with white women.
they just made an award winning movie about f'n jim braddock, a bum. if they can do that and try making braddock seem like something he wasn't, then someone can write a paper about jack johnson.
however really my point was just to try finding any fighter that actually has a lot of reputable sources written about him. and someone who isnt too overused. like it would be stupid to write a paper about ali right now unless you had a totally fresh angle. which, you probably don't.
well, jack johnson is greatly over-used and if anyone doesn't know who he is they are either illiterate or a mouth-breather whether they like boxing or not. my point was all about boxing and good boxing is not something you find in johnson's fights unfortunately. Johnson wasn't a bum of course, but all you'll find on tape is him vs bums and old fighters. I just suggested better sources.
I think that if someone wants to get into boxing history, study Sugar Ray Robinson perhaps or even Ali. Find a torrent site where collectors share the wealth and get some of the classics. If history is really what you want then around the Dempsey era is good as the rules were evolving to be what they are today. The 'long count' fight is a good place to start and go both ways from there.
I just hope it happens, hearing Peter's people talking about Briggs like he would 'price himself out' is more or less saying that they are offering him less this time around. I think that Briggs could probably beat Peter. All Peter has is a punch and if you can't beat one of the K's with a punch, you can't box. Peter's people are bluffing trying to get press and make it seem like guys are scared of haymakers or something. Anybody who can actually handle themselves in a ring would prefer if all you knew how to do was chase them with wide punches even if you can punch.
probably but wlad is faster than anyone else mentioned in this topic, except that robot.
I think that everyone who has posted in this thread is faster than Wlad. :D
greatly overused? i totally disagree. go down the street and ask random people who are robinson, dempsey, tyson, ali, joe louis, jack johnson. i bet 9 out of 10 of them don't know jack johnson. everyone else i named is way more overused than jack johnson.
you're absolutely right that he wasnt as good of a fighter as anyone else from that list. i do think he is hall of fame worthy regardless. he was basically the first black athlete wasn't he? i can think of nobody before him.
well, my first statement said that, he was the first black hw champ but beyond that he really did more harm than good by refusing to fight black fighters after he had the title. And I never said that he was not a good fighter for the time, I simply said that he fought sub par competition.
im not saying peter is good either but i get the impression that a lot of people were saying briggs would beat tua. even peter i dont see briggs beating cause peter is younger and briggs isnt skilled and fast like wlad. hed trade with peter and thatd be it.
My son has a remote control robot that is faster than Wlad.
I have to disagree. I think that at 140, DLH was too fast and strong for any version of Chávez. Fighters with speed(Taylor, Randall, DLH) always gave Chávez trouble.
They gave him trouble, but when Chavez was a young man, he didn't lose ;).
I know. I think that Calzaghe and Lacy are the best in the division. The winner will be recognized as the top fighter, who will have to solidify that status by facing Kessler.
Calzaghe deserves to be included in the best in the division, but Lacy has fought no one. Kessler is perhaps a step or two above Lacy in my opinion as far as competition. Check boxrec and see what you think, Exciterx23, I respect your opinion. I'd like to know how you size up their records.
I haven't got to see his last fight yet, I'm thinking about grabbing the torrent for it. I heard that he got robbed in JP. He's a good fighter. Very tough.
i have a feeling he refused to fight other black fighters for money reasons more than him ducking them. all the whites wanted to see a white man beat him for one thing. he did fight some black fighters. you make it sound as if he never did, but that's not accurate. and if he did refuse to fight black fighters was he really doing anything that any of the other white heavyweights had done around that time? jack dempsey also refused to fight any black fighters after he became champ. and dempsey beat jess willard for his title. willard of course beat jack johnson.
that doesn't make it right for jack johnson either, so please don't take it as an excuse, just pointing out that.
It is accurate that he refused to fight black fighters once he had the title and you can look it up. Give me a few and I'll get you a link. Manny Steward even spoke a bit about it in a fightnews article a while back when they were asking trainers about the greatest hws of all time.