I never thought I would walk in on a thread were people actually thought Bruce Lee was a fraud. wow, I can't think of to many martial art masters with video footage of them beating ass. So are we grouping Jet Li into this discussion as well??
Sorry wrong guy. I got some other clown mixed up with you . Apologies. I see he's run off.
Your probably referring to me as the Jet Li poster, and if you look I responded pretty much right away to your initial reply, I just saw the second one about Jet Li's resume, and I think you are grouping me with the rest of the little bunch in here that think BL can whoop anyone. I agree that he was the greatest I believe he was a master martial artist. My initial response A) was not directed specifically to you, but more towards those who seemed to believe that like boxing you aren't great unless you have beaten great fighter...ok..whatever, good point I suppose I still believe based on the books I've read\martial arts studies that I've practiced, and the documentaries I've seen that he could hold his own with pretty much anyone today (we would almost have to assume though that BL would be at a much more advanced stage in his philosophies and practices so he might have more under his belt in this day and age.) B) the reference to Jet Li was again aimed at people who were posting uninformed\ignorant replies just for the sake of arguing, or maybe because they don't respect Martial Arts, and for no other reason then to spark more ignorant replies. At any rate, didn't see a reason to get all uptight and defensive about the post.
Jesus Christ. Wu Shu is a demonstration art. Li is a master at it.
He has had no fighting tournament wins. Just tournaments in WU SHU. Learn what Wu Shu is.
And before you whine about the thread, take the time to read what I'm saying. I'm not calling Bruce Lee a fraud. I'm saying you can't rate him as a fighter since he never FOUGHT or fougth anyone legit. I mean some street scuffles are greata and all, but a lot of people have had those.
The real question is, if you think Bruce Lee could beat EVERY BOXER EVER, do you think WONG JACK MAN could do that same?
How about any random Kung Fu master? Aikido master?
These arts have not been proven in LIVE combat in the modern era (the early UFC, SHOOTO and pancrase events showed the weakness of NO SPARRING LIVE which most of these core arts do not do).
But hey, ignore my logic and research and just accept the movie fights you see as real. Fine by me.
uhhh were in my post did i mention you?? I mentioned the video proof yes, but I was more so addressing some of the more uninformed\ignorant responses on the thread.
I guess I would consider myself one of the folks who has a little salt still left over from the JMM fights..BUT... I don't see the logic in belittling someone else s accomplishments just for the sake of making your guy\nation\whatever seem better. "Enjoy the ride while it lasts" I mean seriously are we all just looking for fights in here or do we actually want to have discussions. The whole MP Vs. JMM has been beaten to DEATH. I feel it should be 1-1 but that's not how the record stands, OH WELL. I didn't want MP to beat Hatton or at least I wanted Rick to put up more of a fight, but he didn't....OH WELL.. and the list goes on, of course I didn't want him to beat any of my Mexican heroes, but he did. Why do we waste time arguing the little things and breakin each others balls just because we're pissed off that our fighters aren't getting the acknowledgment? PacMan is THE buzz of boxing right now, end of story. When the end comes, it comes. Why waste time saying things like "oh he's going to get demolished against **********, and then he goes and tears the the guy to pieces. Then you just look like an idiot..
I'm pretty sure the only people that were excited at that fight were Taylor fans. Until the later part of the fight Froch had close to nothing to cheer for or to be excited about, and if you were excited then it was probably when Froch touched the canvas.
Well it should not have been easy had somebody else fought them. You can ask Floyd Jr , Steve Forbes and Paul Malignaggi.
No one should ever compare someone to Paulie "I care more about my looks then my boxing skillz" Malignaggi...:)
Whoa whoa whoa...all I am going to say is (Marquez, Morales, Barrera, De La Hoya, Hatton,) stop the madness.. hand picking weak opponents?? and since when was Lazcano a nobody?? These guys were NOT A list fighters????? huh??. I'll give you DLH because I do feel that he was at the end of the rope, but the other four?? and as bad as he beat Hatton, Ricky is still a formidable foe IMO. only two loses, to champions. And his fights between JMM, EM, and MAB he has seven fights, all which were tough battles.
I had the exact same thoughts while watching the 24/7. If he loses Freddy who will he trust to be in his corner and who will treat him like family like Freddy does?
I'm pretty sure he meant to knock the hell outta him. I am Mexican and know the familiar racial slurs..and didn't consider this insult. I have heard plenty of times someone say knock the grease off of him. which meant beat the dudes ass. I think we are reaching for something on this one..but in case your are serious I really don't think that he meant anything by this..he was just using slang to get his fighter motivated.
I think it will be something like Rocky Juarez vs Marco Antonio Barrera...JMM is just too experienced.
JMM beat Barrera, beat Pacman in the rematch(in my view), and K.O Casamayor
Juan Diaz is in for a tough fight, very dangerous fight for him, I don't think I can say the same for JMM because he's always looked so damn good against dangerous opponents.
I thought the Pac fight was a hard one to call, they were both brilliant. When JM faked a left and busted Pac's eye with a smooth right (damn) that pretty much sold me that he should have won not to mention he was still coming strong in the final round..Marquez most definitely has the skill still. No questioning JMM's heart either cause like you said he looks good the better the opponent. Hopefully they will fight again and before they are both ending their career. If Diaz pulls it off though it will be a great spring board for him to land more big fights.
I don't watch MMA, mainly because I don't know a lot of the players. I know the big names and see the highlights but that's about it. I've taken martial arts and have much love for the sport of boxing (I'm Mexican it's in my blood:) ). but I just can't draw myself to MMA. I saw one post on here that tied MMA to the boring aspect of Boxing (holding and clinching) which I totally understand because I could careless how well someone's guard on their back is, and watching someone line up a 215lbs elbow to pummel into someone's skull repeatedly just isn't as fun as watching as watching per say, Calzaghe rip Jeff Lacey to shreds, or Pacman and JMM bobing weaving, and out dueling each-other planning that thunderous body blow or uppercut that's gonna have the crowd going (wow, that kid just got his block knocked). I do want to say though, in regards to conditioning, I'm pretty sure I have seen multiple studies and articles that have said both MMA and Boxers are amongst the most durable and well trained athletes in the world, so to say that an MMA fighter is not on the same level as a boxer is a great disrespect to MMA. If you have any doubt, try grappling a 200+lbs guy that has been training like a wild bear for 6mos. Hell, try grappling a college kid I bet you will realize pretty quickly that these guys who some like to call homos' because they put on tights and grab\and hug are pretty damn good athletes and know their craft. but to remain on topic, I think most people view this the same as American see football, and the rest of the world see's Soccer. Both require amazing strength and conditioning, but for some reason those purest of each sport will not recognize the dedication and hard work that the each player puts in. kind of like MMA, most people that I know think Soccer is a "girlie sport" and requires no skill or conditioning.
I am not sure what to think about this one. It's really a toss up and all the points that need to be addressed I think have already been mentioned. Hopefully it's a good fight though. If Khan catches one of those bombs when he's not ready though...forget about it
IDK i have been watching and listening about Ricky Hatton for a while now and I still think that the guy suffers major mental issues from his loss to Floyd. All these posts that I read about Ricky and not one mentions the fact that he had problems with two of his last fights. two WINS yes, but he had to work for them, harder then he should have. Records aside, I think Ricky is on the downslide of his career and most would probably agree, and so he needs a big WIN over someone like Floyd or Pac. ONLY then.. I think he should be able to call his shots for a 60-\40 match and thats only if he wins. truthfully, I think he would need a Floyd and a Pac under his belt to get his own show, cause you don't come for the thrown with TWO average performances. I didn't see anyone raving over his win of Paulie Maglinaggi nor did anyone say he was back to his old self after he won the decision against Lazcano. Realistically who doesn't think that he should have been able to belt Paulie into the second row if he was truly The Hit-man and a force to be reckoned with. As for fan support they both probably have an equally sized following. Pacman is the rising star so of course people are going to say he deserves more money, not to mention he devastates his opponent and has way more classic fights then The Fat-man so he probably has a slight advantage (knocking of a great like DLH probably does him some good as well.) but I can't help but have a lingering feeling that he hasn't beat that one guy who everyone will have to respect him for. I am eating my words as Im' writing this because I am thinking of his fights with EM and the legendary matches against JMM. For myself though I think he needs to prove that he is without a shadow of a doubt The Alpha and Omega. when they say Pacman people shouldn't say, well he should fight this guy or that guy. they should be saying "Man, Pac is going to ruin that guy he doesn't stand a chance. Look at all the credit people gave Kelly Pavlik and OVERNIGHT B-Hop put him back in his place. so I guess after all that, I would agree that the 50/50 split is fair until one of them proves that he IS "The Man", and at least in this case neither has done more or is more deserving then the other. But..Pac's recent win against DLH probably gives him just a little bit of a edge for knocking off a great but not enough to ask for more money. Not to mention Pacman isn't even about money so this is probably coming from The Suits. Pac probably just wants to kick some ass and hand out more free turkeys to his people:) and give them a grand a week for losing weight..hahaha
And please don't be a smart ass and ask me if I know about his finances because i said his lawyers and managers are pushing for the money, I am only giving an opinion based on the character that Pac has shown on and off the screen
I guess my point was that they were average wins. he didn't dominate these guys. he should have knocked Paulie's head off, and Lazcano most people (myself included) felt that it was a very lackluster performance. Im' not trying to take his wins away but come on, if you put those two fighters in the ring with Pac do you think they would have went the distance? Paulie would have fell probably 3 rounds earlier and the Lazcano match if anything would have just been a good boxing fight to watch and a chance for Pac to show off his skills. When I watch Hatton during that fight he looked like his basic movement was unsure, and like he was scared to punch. sometimes punching off balance. I didn't say he lost on the cards because come on, you can't always go off what the judges are scoring. Who knows what they are thinking sometimes.
I never said hatton was washed up. I thought Paulie is an decent fighter, but he is not deserving (in my opinion) of all his hype. but, I can see that my conversation will go nowhere since people are taking this as I am saying that hatton is a scrub. Just said I thought his last two fights were average and didn't grant him a passage to larger purses. His record goes without saying so don't take it as I am saying he's garbage.
So far all I have seen is the thread starter trying to play devils advocate just for the sake of argument. Let's look at some big names for each fighter (and obviously these are fighters I feel are noteworthy nothing is in stone just my opinion). For RJJ you have Calzaghe(L), Old Felix Trinidad(W), Tarver(2L)(1W), James Toney(W), and of course B-Hop(W). now lets get to B-Hop, Pavlik(W),Winky(W),Tarver(W), Oscar(W), much younger Trinidad(W), Roy(L). Now please tell me besides these names who was on Roy's list that was so much better then the opponents B-Hop faced during his reign at the top. I like Roy so if you think I am biased I'm not, just trying to get a guy his respect I feel he deserves.
well I guess I am not aware of these statistics, but I never thought Paulie had a chance against Ricky, not cause I'm nut-hugging, but in my honest opinion Paulie is not someone with the power to stop Ricky. Yea Cotto is a bomber we know that and Paulie has crazy heart (no doubt) but did you think he was going to win? screw what the 80% and 35% said. when you heard about the fight did you ever for a shadow of a doubt think that Paulie was going to bring it to Ricky? and we are talking about how this is viewed as far as asking for more money. Did you think those two wins in particular at this point in his career should have granted him the right for more money? I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HIS OVERALL RECORD. but since his loss to Floyd I think he has been trying to work back to that invincible status.
What says you...
I agree, to say he is over-rated is being harsh. I think most people who say this are only thinking of his most recent fights against Calzaghe and Taylor. Both of whom are fantastic athletes so a loss (especially at this age) is nothing to scoff at. Yes he did beat Pavlik but do we really think he is on Joe or Jermain's level of skill? Probably not, skilled and upcoming yes. I can see how people would call B-Hop over-rated since his style is so methodically and a lot of times boring. but when you have a smart fighter who plays the counter and mind games like B then you are going to get those long drawn out sometimes ugly fights that you are going to wish you didn't see, but later appreciate the skill someone like Bernard has because he finds a way to win.
and if I am making stuff up please tell me what it is? I don't think I said he lost to paulie or juan, or he is unskilled or that he is a bum? nope, just gave my opinion. so what are you talking about my friend?