You cant have a reasonable convo, when it is regarding a British fighter, because American fans minds work like this..........Barrera>Hamed = any other great featherweight in history beats Hamed.
Marquez would not come through 12 rounds with Hamed without being dropped or knocked out. Marqez has a shaky chin at best. I cant see him getting by Hamed's punching power.
Norwood,Pacquiao,Barrera all put Marquez on his ass. Even powder puff puncher Juan Diaz shook him, its not like Marquez has a great defence or a great chin, he is an excellent counter puncher, but he is very hittable and knockoutable.
With all due respect, how did you have Quartey beating Vargas?
Yeah i dont see that either, he beat DLH and Forrest but i thought he lost a close but clear decision to Vargas, if that makes any sense :haha:
Quartey got robbed against both De La Hoya and Forrest. Had he not he'd surely make the HOF. Quartey truly ducked no one, and was dominated by no one. Very under rated fighter.
But his fight against Winky wasn't all that significant since he didn't have a remote chance of winning and Winky didn't have much to gain from beating him.
This is true. There is no question in my mind that he deserved both decisions over DLH and Forrest.
think of it like this
If he can take a flush left hook from a better stronger version of DLH at 154 he can take manny punches.
I must of missed that.:haha:
If Lewis fought in black and white he would be rated as a top 3 heavyweight of all time and his wins would be magnified because of that.
Mercer would be rated like Bonavena.
Shit i miss Kostya...
I enjoy seeing Vernon beat also...
I dont know if you have seen that fight but if you dont like Forrest you will LOVE that because Tszyu makes him look like a second tier fighter.
It is evident up to and a little after his fight title win. After that he got very slack with his training and didn't really stick to his old routine and started training more for strength and power rather than stamina, speed etc.
You could see it show up in a couple of fights where he was still able to pull it out on instinctive skill alone but by the Phillips fight he had moved away so far by then that it wasn't enough anymore and he lost. He changed after that of course and kept up more of his old routine and started doing a proper camp again, but it was still too much power and strength because by that stage he had become such a flat-footed fighter that his legs just didn't have the spring anymore and his body was actually already pretty old by then from all his amateur fighting.
Check out his first title fight, he still shows sings of utter brilliance in it dominating a young but highly experienced champion in only his fifteenth fight or something. It shows how skilled he was by the fact that he was fighting and beating great former champs by his fourth pro fight and blowing out future world champs by his seventh or something crazy like that. He was a bit of a freak.
I think he would have possible ended up as one of the greatest modern fighters if he had stayed in Russia with his Russian coach or moved to America where he would have kept up more of his skills, speed etc etc training, but I guess it was so easy for him throughout a lot of his career that he was able to slack off from training so much that he lost a lot of stuff and by the time he lost it was too far gone to get it back.
Well i watched the Bramble fight earlier and i did notice a lot more movement handspeed,defence,counter punching.
Thanks for the info :boxing:
It was his training habits that changed from his Russian routine when he moved to Australia and Johnny Lewis. He is not what you would call a 'boxers' coach. He focuses on strength and power etc. and when Tszyu realised the power he had and that he didn't have to train for speed, movement as much he ended up relying on it too much and by the time he realised that he should have kept his skills up it was a little too late to change everything back.
He still had absurd skills, but it was tempered too much by his lack of skills training and his focus on power....and of course he went through a long period of very slack training methods up until his loss to Phillips.
Nonetheless, he is without a doubt one of the greatest amateurs the sport has ever seen (as well as one of the great pro fighters ever as well). It may be that he actually had too many amateur fights as well and that it slightly ruined him for the pros. Having three hundred amateur fights ingrains certain muscle memory that can be nearly impossible to get rid of.
Yeah i can see that.
Ive watched quite a few of his fights and he does not show that varied range of skills as a pro, he looks much more like a strong/formidable type of fighter who is a hard puncher.
The skill level he had as an amateur really surprised me, that skill is not AS evident as a pro from what ive seen.
mayweathers win over de la hoya is NOT underrated. infact i think he's given too much credit by his fanboys...
oscar wasnt shot...nor was he prime...and if you ask me im more impressed with oscar because he almost beat the top p4p fighter in the world who was in their prime while he wasnt...
he lost ultimately by ONE ROUND.
floyd shouldnt be proud of that win neither should his fanboys...as much trash as floyd talked squeeking by with a controversial win against a fighter past his prime isnt something to get excited about.
personally i think there is a legit arguement to say he lost that fight to be completely honest.
:lol1: :lol1:
Dela Hoya made it a close fight because he was still a great fighter not because Floyd was unable to deal with him decisively.
That Oscar Dela Hoya would of destroyed Manny.
Glad to see you're not comparing his win over Oscar to Pac's.
That said, the win isn't underrated at all. It is what it is - no great shakes. Oscar beating Mayorga proves nothing; every fighter uses Mayorga to come back and beat up on. The fact is, Oscar hadn't had a decent win in over five years and only his name kept people believing he was still a top junior middle. He wasn't, plain and simple.
I understand all of what you said but you must admit he fought an excellent fight and looked better than he had looked in some years.
If he had kept jabbing who knows what would of happened.
Victor Ortiz is the best prospect
Juanma Lopez is good too..
I see something special in Victor.. Future P4P fighter tho
Victor Ortiz is the best prospect:notworthy
Some Alphabet title holders are better than Linear champs. Linear champ supposes that all great fighters lose to a great fighter in the end and thats just not the way it works.
Rahman was a linear champ, because he got 1 flukey punch in on a great fighter.
If you look at the Middleweights there are some shocking Linear titleholders.
Hagler - Leonard - Norris - Brown - Norris - Santana - Norris - Mullins - Castillejo - De La Hoya - Mosley - Wright.
I think we can both agree that beating Hopkins or RJJ would have been worth twice beating some of those names at MW.
You son dont have a godamn clue what you are talking about.
Norris beat Curry,Leonard,Taylor,Mugabi,Brown,Blocker,Castro.
Brown - Norris - Santana - Norris - Mullins were not MW you fool!!
the bottom line is that the guy has been lineal jr. welter champ for the past 4 years....and is 45-1, and his only loss is to the greatest fighter of the generation.....hatton certainly has earned respect.....fact, jack
Hatton almost got knocked out by Collazo and its debatable whether he won the fight. Did you see his face after the fight? he was battered and wobbled in the fight.
He turned his fight with Tszyu into Wrestlemania because the English ref allowed it.
He held onto Juan Urango for dear life.
He done more holding in 4 rounds of the Castillo fight than most people do in 12 or 15.
Hatton was not allowed to hold Mayweather and he got destroyed.
This is Boxing not wrestling, its about the punches not the hugs.
if u actually watch the mayweather fight u will see it was floyd doing the holding and dirty tactics but oh well u wont listen anyway.there r a few fights where he has held alot but his record speaks for itself really
:lol1: Hatton was initiating it like he always does. What do you expect the other guy to do not try to resist?
His record does not show how he holds his opponents and mauls them to stop them getting the extension on their punches. If Hatton had fought legally against Tszyu he would of been knocked out.
Best you listen to Hattons own corner telling him he is smothering himself and to get off Floyd , it was Hatton doing all the shoving and pushing and he wasnt punching on the inside because he got beat there too so he just mauled ,, why that was happening was that Ricky was too shit frightened to give Floyd any punching room .
The truth. That is exactly what happened.