yea rigo most likely wins.
but i don't think its so simple. Roman can fight like crazy on the inside.
Rigo is getting up in age, he could beat Rigo, maybe.
But, yea rigo would be very very tough for anyone to beat
This thread ignores age and genetics. At 25, he's at a point when guys start to fill out, especially if it's in their genes (look at his dad). He's been bursting at the seams for a while and it's only going to get worse. Yes, he may have looked better when he was lighter but that's not an option for him anymore. Discipline aside, he can't make 135 anymore.
This. Broner strangely doesn't seem to posses a sense of urgency in the ring. He seems content to let the fight slip away.
Everyone on the forum would of said Bradley before Brook beat Porter,now all of a sudden he's the 2nd best welterweight behind Mayweather.the Porter win is seriously overrated,he beat a fighter who to me is a terrible boxer,smothers his own punches and rushes in like a caveman with no technique whatsoever,he can't even throw a decent combination.the Malignaggi win fooled a lot of people into thinking Porter was some monster.Bradley has declined a lot so Brook probably beats him now.
Yea, I don't think much of Porter either. Not that convinced about Brook. He doesn't look bad at all. But the win over Porter wasn't that impressive. I'd like to see him face the other top welters. Hopefully they face each other soon.
I have a certain amount of admiration for guys who can go out there and beat top guys while living an unhealthy lifestyle or not training as hard as others.
Like Toney.
Carlos Monzon was another guy.
Ray Leonard
Kelly Pavlik
Hatton
Sweat Pea
Chavez Sr
As long as they can live the crazy party lifestyle and not ruin their lives or careers. Certainly wouldn't put Pavlik there. Calzahage, Oscar, and Benn was a party monster too. Apparently popping ecstasy, drinking and smoking weed.
Abraham is not very good, extremely predictable.
Yea, he has amazing power no doubt, but he kinda sucked, and is style would fit some fighters like a glove.
A good version of Floyd would win this fight easy as Abraham has an absolutely horrendous work rate, and zero urgency.
He hits hard, but against GGG, GGG would be the one landing all the shots early in the fight, as again Abrahams strategy of putting his gloves up and eating punches to tire an opponent out before he starts would be disastrous against GGG, just like it was against Froch.
You can't give your body and face to be hit against someone like GGG. GGG would KO him. GGG is killer to the body and Abraham has an open invitation to punch him there.
Can someone embed this video of Toney? I literally laugh every time.
http://youtu.be/mhHhn-bu8i0 "fought taxi drivers, just like Chavez, fought nurses, just like Chavez"
:haha: :haha:
Hahaha, amazing! I like him even more now.
Mark my words, the fight is going to happen. The winds have shifted. This is not like before where Floyd always had cover to avoid the fight. He was never berated by everyone like this before, never.
Actually, it ranged from 15% - 22% returns for minimum was 15%. So you're saying 15% ROI, every year, for 36 consecutive years sounds reasonable? Bernie Madoff never had a losing year.
I never qualified it as reasonable or not. You are the one that is comparing Madoffs 15% to a 300000% return. Completely different ballpark. Different planets even.
And it not that it changes my point or is super important, but you are off about the details. 15% was not minimum and the average over 36 years was not between 15%-22%.
Not that it matters, still not comparable to the scam pulled on Floyd.
After many years of returns in the range of 12% to 15%, in recent times the profits have been in the high single digits at times.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/12/madoff-ponzi-hedge-pf-ii-in_rl_1212croesus_inl.html
IMO this is the MAIN reason why floyd doesnt want to fight pacquiao. He CAN NOT LOSE!!! It will hurt his marketability as this "undefeated" fighter. People will pay to see him lose. But once he loses, whos gonna pay to see him lose again? That whole TBE thing is a gimick. That whole bs that he came out of retirement to fight pacquiao IS COMPLETE BS. He only came back and cherry picked fights he KNEW he could win cuz his ass lost mostly all his money and he was almost BROKE!!! Defend that floyd fans!
You're probably right. He obviously has a very powerful compulsive spending problem. And Floyd isn't a puncher. While, we core boxing fans might appreciate him, most casual fans would not if not for his undefeated record.
Even with the big money fights, he is bound to be go broke. He spends money faster than Tyson. I once knew someone who had a compulsive spending problem, and unless she was spending a lot everyday she would simply not be happy.
Its like being an alcoholic but you get drunk from spending money, instead of drinking. Recipe for disaster. Will be interesting to see how Mrs. Jacksons lawsuit goes now. If she wins a massive settlement, it will be interesting to see how much, and how Floyd reacts.
So, who else besides Floyd and Pac have been able to outbox JMM again? Bradley had the wrong game plan against Pac in the rematch because he knew he had no shot to win a decision due to the controversy in the first bout, not to mention he tore a calf muscle and still managed to finish the fight.
In this last bout, the opponent headbutted him and he still won a minimum of 7 rounds (I thought he won 8). Arum paid the judges off (Lederman in particular) to keep Chaves marketable for future fights because his welterweight boxing stable is thin.
How many fighters has JMM fought that could easily outbox him?
Pure slick boxers will always school JMM. The dude very carefully chooses opponents. Just as Bradley and Floyd embarrassed him many other fighters also would.
JMM is good against a certain fighter. If Pac only wanted to outbox him in an uneventful fight, Pac could do the same. But he's always looking for that KO.
There have been many fights JMM has declined because he knew he would lose. He took the Bradley fight because Timmy tends to come in ducking a lot and JMM has a great uppercut. But Bradley has enough athletic skills that if he is not trying to KO him, easy win.
Arum makes iron clad contracts. Donaire, Garcia, and plenty of others have tried to get away and failed. Didn't Floyd have to buy his contract out from Arum?
I don't think Froch Chaves can happen. Froch should target GGG.
I have 10% faith Fraud agrees. Its been too long and agonozing for us boxing fans. He wants none of Manny.
He doesn't have a choice this time. I agree, he would rather fight Cotto. But no fighter with a healthy ego could bear the situation Floyd is.
And Floyd's middle name is egotistical. He will take the fight. It's just human nature. This time the situation is completely different. I am completely convinced.
There's no fabricated PED controversy to hide behind. Floyds ego makes it certain the fight will happen.
Supposedly there's sparring footage Manny had of those two back in the Kronk days. A few reporters on hand said they had some wars. Still in an actual fight I'd have to favor Toney by stoppage.
Gerald for all his explosive talent, had a really untested career. He had three big wins against Mugabi, and Jackson (2x), but nothing else. Granted he was stepping up in weight against Benn, but once Benn survived the initial onslaught, Gerald was getting outboxed and getting hit with clean shots regularly. I think Toney would've took Gerald's best and been landing hard shots on Gerald all night.
Even in that Jackson fight he was in a bit of trouble.
But I still think Gerald is or could've been a great. First off, it's quite unfair he wasn't given a first round KO in the Benn fight.
And, if he had a proper trainer, even going against a someone like Benn at your first fight at 168, I think he could've beaten him soundly. Gerald needed an uppercut for the ducking and diving of Benn. Benn ended up being more effective than I would've thought, that night. I mean, the ducking just ended up being surprisingly effective at avoiding that straight right, over and over.
A McClennan Toney fight would be super interesting. I don't think it would be so straightforward at. That ridiculous straight right of McClennan was great. At 160, anyone getting hit with clean would be out. And he was so fast and relentless. But Toney did like to duck and dive coming in, and we saw how Benn did that against McClennan. And Toney is indeed a great.
His inside game was so damned smooth and powerful. Never quite seen anybody do it like that.
Look at Bernie Madoff.. He fooled so many people with his ROI gaurantee.
Madoofs ROI was like 5 points above market. Maximum 15% return a year, although more like 10%. 5 billion return off 15 million is something most people would know is a scam, that is like a 25000% return.
Pretty much agree. Gerald was unfulfilled potential, between his own personal issues and King sitting on him. He worked the jab to set up that right real good. Going up in weight for Benn, you hear his training was slacked, all around sad.
Toney was just a rare natural fighter. Yeah Miller showed him the way, but Toney was able to absorb it. Very rare individual.
Yea, his training for that fight was very loose. As I remember it he was training himself essentially. For a fight against someone like Benn at 168, that is not good enough. I am sure if he was still with Steward, he would've been training hard and practicing uppercuts all day long. Also another thing, Benn was really ducking low in the fight, you're not meant to duck below your waistline. He was ripe for uppercuts in the fight. You know if the fight didn't end like that, it would be a bona fide classic.
Although, Geralds game was built around overwhelming and swarming his opponents, and it actually did work, as most refs know you have to fall out of the ring to get an extra ten seconds. So his adopted approach, he got none of the advantages, and had to pay later.
Part of it is also, he underestimated Benn. But someone like Gerald, like you said massive unfulfilled potential. When you have such an incredible straight right there is so much you can do in a ring with good boxing IQ and different tactics. It's a bit sad he isn't mentioned much anymore.
He definitely sounds like he will end up like Tyson and Hollyfield, eventually broke.
He sounds actually far worse than them, as bad as it gets. He has a compulsive behavior problem. Some people eat compulsively, some drink or take drugs, and some people cannot stop compulsively spending money.
Since it's a mental problem, it will be very tough for Floyd to stop this problem. He lives like a king, but it sounds like he stopped enjoying it towards the end. For his sake I hope he gets help, so he doesn't end up broke.
His kids definitely aren't inheriting anything, lol.
here we go people. Just like I stated. Floyd fan whos gonna find one or two things floyd did "good" and roll with that. What do you feel about floyd threatening to cut off all that woman's hair and his crew run a train on her? Or are you gonna do what I stated and forget about those things and be selective in what you "defend"?
Yea, this book makes Floyd look very bad.
I think the worst problem for Floyd is, legally, Mrs. Jackson just got dealt an amazing hand. She claimed she was held against her will, now someone is corroborating that it also happened to her.
This books makes it much more likely Floyd could have a huge problem on his hands in regards to the lawsuit. She could clean him out.
The thing is Gerald was indeed getting hit with too many shots, but the majority of that came because there was obviously something wrong with Gerald. We don't know exactly when he suffered the head injuries, but it was almost certainly quite early in the fight, as blood clots tend to make a man pass out a bit after first coming about.
Even if someone else exposed him, Gerald would've come back stronger. That straight right of his had a ton of speed and power and great range. And it's very tough to defend against since its so fast and straight. Speculation of course, but imo he was on path for super stardom. He had all the assets. Should've stayed at 160, and not fought someone like Benn at first fight at SMW. Can't blame him though, he was on a killer role, and did clearly knock Benn out in the first round.
And, I dunno, but Benn passing out right before the drug test, thus not having any drug test. He was so pumped and animated after the victory. I completely do not buy it, it looked like bad acting to me. I think he realized if he tested positive he would've been thrown out of boxing and into prison.
Floyd Mayweather lost $15million.. There were people who lost their life fortune on Madoff. Mets owner lost $700million. Bernie Madoff scam was a $50 Billion scam. Different ballpark. Different planets even.
Yes they are different planets, in terms of some people losing their life savings (some didn't), but no one ever said otherwise, so its silly and strange to bring it up.
We're talking about the expected return from the two scams, and they are not comparable at all, to claim that it is, to compare a 15% return to a damned 30,000% return is not comparable. The stupidity of expecting a 15% return vs a 30,000% return, that was the point, try staying focused.
You said I was wrong about the Maddof details. Turns out you were the one that is wrong, both times. Fine. Innocent mistake maybe. But now you are doubling down and throwing out straw-man arguments that no one was arguing against?
Funny how even on an anonymous forum, when some people are contradicted and proved that what they are saying is wrong, they cannot help keep reflexively arguing back. I don't know why people find ego management is so important on an anonymous forum. Guess it is just human behavior.
I dunno, Abrham is a beast, but kinda crap too. He starts very slow, doesn't really move, just holds his hands up to eat punches allowing his opponents to tire out. A very unique and effective style against some.
Would a technical fighter like GGG really have trouble beating him? I think GGG would kill his body with all the open shots he would have. GGG is just as much of a beast, but a better fighter by a million miles.
This is kinda what I felt would happen should Floyd fight Pac, that he would fight him as the last fight of his contract. He knows he could lose and would rather have it has the last fight, I think, plus its a great bookend to a career.
But, JCC probably is just talking nonsense. When key players like Arum, and Roach don't know how this is going to play out, would JCC really know insider info? Don't think so. JCC Jr. doesn't even speak with Arum anymore.
Brooks prob is he isn't big in the US at all. Brook Porter had very low ratings. Lets be real, its a bit silly to think he could ever land a Pac or Floyd fight.
JMM or a Khan fight would be great. But I think Brook should fight Thurman as that is a fight he could get. I do not think JMM is going to fight Brook. JMM is gonna retire or fight a far softer touch.
Exposed as not being able to KO everyone in the first three rounds as he had been. Exposed by losing. Any undefeated fighter who loses, is exposed. It's just a word. There is something called context. Don't see how its hard to understand.
Yea he was a beast, so was Tyson. And he got 100% exposed. Just repeating he is a beast is not an argument, is quite meaningless and uninteresting. Gerald had vulnerabilities. He wasn't the finished article.
The fight will happen. There is just far too much pressure now on Floyd to take it. I don't think he really wants it, and he was planning on fighting Cotto, but I think he was trying to lay the groundwork to duck the fight and it failed. I am sure it will happen.
Yes, too many weight classes. If you look at JMW right now, it's a bunch of young guys who still weigh in on fight night like the MW's.
There will always be drawbacks, and positives to either method. But I do see your point.
Like you said, at the moment, young guys are not all fighting within the spirit of the point of weight classes. But if you eliminated those two, I think there would a lot of fighters caught out.
Should probably go back to same day weigh ins, and stipulate a fighter cannot gain more than five pounds on that day, making everyone come in on their correct weight. No gimmicks to lose weight to squeeze in a division to have a weight advantage.
Sometimes I think, boxing is half a game of which fighter can most successfully squeeze into a division he doesn't really belong in.
That would be interesting, I'm surprised Bernard would be allowed to fight for the vacant title? Good for him if he can move down in weight and win that SMW title to cap his career, but DeGale would be a bad match up for him, similar to how Dawson was. And shame on Andre Dirrell if he's passing up another chance for a real fight.
Is it interesting? Hopkins is a legend, but his time, whenever it was, is just over. He is not going to be that competitive against DeGale.
And I feel like the allure of Hopkins, and interest is kinda over now. It's just fighters looking for a big name win, against an old man. He did good in his fights against Pascal, but the man just isn't going to look good anymore, and DeGale is a terrible opponent for him
I mean, lets be real, the only way Hopkins wins nowadays is if an opponent tires themselves out trying to KO him early in the fight. If this doesn't happen, he has little chance. And most fighters are aware enough not to do this.
I dunno, maybe I am wrong, and being overly harsh.
Shane has always come across as a really good guy, so I feel bad for him, and hope he gets a job sports casting and leads a more modest life.
How in the hell does his ex be able to live in that mansion and have money? Pretty crazy that she owns the place and he lives in the basement.
Its some straight BS. Sure a wife should get money in a divorce, but there has to be a glass ceiling. If a man is a billionaire, she should get half automatically? Some BS there.
He is what I thought he is. Decent. He's a good boxer, but that's it. There's intangibles that separates great boxers like Froch, from good boxers like Groves.
PEDS are tangible.
Groves ruined his career by getting ****y and admiring his handiwork against Froch on the first fight.
He was schooling Froch, and if he stuck to the way he was fighting would've cruised to a unanimous decision.
Those two KOs took it out of him. He was looking great before that. He should've destroyed Froch.