The fact that people are picking Bruce Lee is utterly embarrassing...
Look, he was a great athletic actor and a Martial Artist (who practiced Karate which is looked down upon by most MMA fans BTW).
Even the most hardcore Martial Arts fans understand thar Bruce Lee was an actor and an actor only.
He had 0 sanctioned fights, 0 boxing, 0 everything.
Is this 1980? Or are people that clearly don’t train telling on themselves?
I honestly thought this forum was more aware of combat sports on what works vs what doesn’t.
Mayweather vs Bruce Lee would look worse than Mayweather Tenshin..much much worse.
Bruce was NOT a fighter, period.
Pac vs One time did just over 500k, that was Keith Thurman’s first PPV.
Spence is in that magical 4th PPV where guys on his level have skyrocketed up in PPV numbers in passing of the torch type of fights. It all falls in line.
This can easily hit 1M, which in 2021 is very successful.
I know boxing fans are extremely fickle, and want to live in a pretend world where they spew nonsense like Floyd and Manny were both magical overnight stars that went to a million PPVs overnight, yet that is not reality.
I could easily see a scenario where if Spence were to beat Pac. His next fight against Bud (potentially), could be another million or close to, and then maybe something like Canelo one day which would be massive.
Basically, Spence needs this Pac W in order to reach that mega stardom.
Boxing is being invested in as much as any point ever by more networks around the world than over. These youngsters like the sport far more than the previous generation did and so many social media stars want to get into the sport.
The purists and older generation talking about the 70s and 80s just need to get over themselves. Boxing isn't going anywhere and these exhibitions have not and will not hurt the sport.
I was looking for this thread last week but couldn't find it.
Thanks for posting in it so it popped up on the main page!
Yeah. ESPN, FOX, DAZN, Showtime is much much stronger than just HBO and Showtime.
Anyone that thinks more young people follow boxing than MMA has their head completely in the sand. Some article from some random obscure website called "twocircles.com" that goes into very little detail on how it came to its conclusion and links it to some video with 300 views, isnt going to change that. Wouldnt social media, YT etc numbers be in favour of boxing if this was the case considering young people use the internet more? so why is it the other way round? why hasnt there been a boxing video game in a decade but EA makes UFC video games? young people play video games right?
Until you know what you are talking about and actually spend 15 seconds looking into something, please take a back seat.
This isn’t a random website, or a twitter poll. It’s a study conducted by a data analytics firm, and one of the best if not the best in all of sports. Do you know who they work with? Take a look at their client list and come back. The largest leagues in the world..the entire Premier League, NFL, several NHL and NBA teams....you might have heard of these.
There is no vested interest in this data by any one entity, and it’s not somebody conducting a yes/no poll. This is data that large organizations require to make big money decisions.
Emotions to the side. Not surprised in the least bit. When you have people that you know that don’t follow the sport start throwing out names like Wilder, Fury, Floyd, Tank, Ryan Garcia etc you know it’s gaining traction. Every division is loaded right now either with guys at the tip of their prime or potential young megastars. It’s much much more exciting than it was 6 years ago. When Floyd and Pac had their fight it made a way for a couple of new generations to come in. I like AB, yet it was never going to be AB.The fans that follow also includes millennials that would have been into Floyd and Pac. The Gen Z interest is even higher in interest level.
It was also the most watched combat sport in the US in 2019 (don’t have 2020’s numbers laid out), thanks in large part to Fox.
With the loaded schedules coming up for Showtime, the FOX PPVs, Joshua/Usyk, all we need are some big highlight reel KOs to start trending and this will be another successful year.
September and the 4th quarter are guaranteed to also have a couple of megafights.
I’m not even going to mention all the side show celebrity stuff, but it all adds to growth.
There is much much more to look forward to in boxing from a schedule perspective. This can be one of the best years in a long time.
After reading the article, it makes more sense the numbers for boxing, but I'd argue these are not "boxing" fans, but fans of individual fighters. It makes a good point about the following of athletes over teams or groups among younger generations, but for boxing just probably means that guys like Canelo and Mayweather and Joshua can become huge mega stars, but the depth of the sport won't be there, hence nobody tuning in for fights like Donaire/Oubaali other than hardcores. I'd also argue 6,000 people is way too small of a datapoint considering the population of the country, so take the numbers with a grain of salt.
MMA is 6th. This isn’t some yes or no survey conducted by twitter in order to pass some time and debate... It’s a study done by a reputable sports analytics company. They know what they are doing as organizations rely on this type of data when it comes to making major decisions.
There is also a separate article on a site called Adage that I haven’t had a chance to read (mostly because I don’t want to pay for their subscription) which references it and also has quotes from Top Rank’s new Chief Revenue Officer Brian Kelly talking about his approach on potential ad revenue and where/how they want to road map it moving forward.
Fans of boxing love to downplay it, yet boxing is still a large part of the American fabric. If you type in boxing on any universal chat box, a boxing glove emoji pops up. It will be customized to the chat app, hell, even snapchat has their own version. Can you do the same thing if you type in MMA? It’s a really dumb example, yet It just shows that boxing isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
Also, this is super impressive considering the fragmented state of the sport with multiple networks/promoters. Already increasing in popularity like a rocket...yet can you imagine if it was all under the same entity and run like a machine, like the NFL or NBA? It would be THE top sport again, there is no doubt about it.
I'd argue you aren't "very interested" in boxing if you aren't watching boxing on apps, cable & PPV. So they gotta be illegally streaming sh^t + using apps at a minimum. But that's just my take on what "very interested" is. I'm curious what the poll guys definition of "very interested" was.
What they don’t tell you and what they hide...
https://www.ringtv.com/587950-rating...rived-in-2019/
“For the 2019 calendar year, PBC Fight Night telecasts on FOX averaged 1,403,000 viewers.
Those figures are up:
+12% over 2018’s average of 1,254,000 viewers (4 tcs).
+103% better than ESPN’s average for Top Rank Boxing telecasts (vs. 692,000 viewers)
+35% better than ESPN’s UFC Fight Night
In 2019, Americans consumed over 2.1 billion minutes of PBC Fight Night on FOX, which was plus-147% more than last year’s 849 million (PBC FOX telecasts only).
What really stood out was FOX’s additional shoulder programming. Specifically, the Fight Camp series. The last Deontay Wilder–Luis Ortiz episode set FOX viewership records with almost 2.5-million watching, as well as the Countdown, Face To Face, and Inside PBC Boxing shows.”
Even the Countdown shows did ridiculous numbers. I suspect we’ll have the same with the Wilder/Fury Trilogy Countdown and the Spence/Pac countdown
The logic behind threads like this make my head spin.
So because Valdez has been in some nasty wars against opposition he should have dominated he is supposed to be praised as a better “fighter”?
Shakur is one of those fighters that may never be in a “war”, or dog fight, he is a generational talent IMO.
Valdez has looked shakey in many fights against lesser guys for yeeeeeaaaars, and people like to rewrite history as if the majority didn’t think he’a be flatlined by Berchelt. I can’t even remember a single round in which Shakur hasn’t been dominant, whether he was in cruise control or whatever.
How anyone thinks Shakur doesn’t absolutely take him to school is beyond me…
Yet hey…I’m ready to hear the excuses.
First of all.....what an overreaction. How are people this clueless?
PBC on FOX has been America's combat sport of choice this year, forget just boxing, combat sports.. annihilating the UFC as well. Look at the average ratings (FOX not FS1). This is fact.
This was supposed to be Charlo vs Harrison Part 2......of course it was going to tank once Harrison got injured.
PBC's promotion is the strongest out of any organization.
PBC Countdown (training camp show)
PBC Inside Boxing
All air on the main FOX and get hundreds of thousands of views each time as shoulder programming.
Who is doing better promotion wise in the US?
This is more promotion than has ever been done in decades. Tell me, what type of promotion was done before PBC on FOX? I will wait...
The amount of uneducated (on their own sport!) and misinformed fans on this board is disgusting.
Clown PBC on anything you want, yet you can't deny that their promotion and ratings in today's Combat climate are second to none.
It isn't DAZN's fault. They are entering a market that has already been polluted by the twin cancers of Bob Arum and Al Haymon. There isn't much that they can do to make things right.
DAZN needs to find a way to market and promote their fights outside of boxing circles before anyone can criticize PBC or Top Rank (who have both done their due diligence in bringing boxing back to the forefront with both FOX and ESPN).
With DAZN being a streaming service, they should be having fighter profiles, countdown shows, training camp shows GALORE on their youtube channel. They can't even get that right! They literally have no other way to market and promote...yet they are barely putting in enough effort to get by.
DAZN = the underground.
How anyone thinks new stars can emerge on DAZN is just baffling.
DAZN is essentially like an underground cheaper version of HBO right now, with worse poltics.
PBC has 3.5 years left on a 4 year deal with FOX which will most likely be renewed with an even BIGGER budget.
FOX has made boxing America’s number one combat sport again from a pure viewership perspective (total views on big FOX are out performing everything this year, including UFC on ESPN).
I love DAZN, yet they are actually hurting boxing with their lacklustre promotion.
What stings DAZN is that PBC on FOX and PBC on Showtime are outperforming DAZN on Social Media and Youtube as well with viewership, which is not cool.
DAZN is supposed to have the social media and youtube advantage yet they are completely dropping the ball with promotion...even though that is the only avenue of promotion that they have!
DAZN as it stands right now is literally an underground type of platform. They pay the fighters well, yet they are failing at creating any type of buzz for any of their shows on any level..even online. (which sucks if you are a young fighter trying to build a profile or brand).
This isn’t opinion, compare google trends, social media views, youtube views etc.
Not even getting into the meat of actual viewership.
... in case DAZN flops, GBP (and Canelo) may join ESPN... The problem with Canelo is that he would have to go back to PPV fights (as he would lose his huge DAZN contract)...
I don’t think this would be a problem. Canelo can still do huge PPV numbers, especially with the promotion ESPN would give. It would be the type of exposure Canelo has never received before (10x bigger than what HBO used to do).
I do not usually post, yet I have to call out b.s when I see it..too much of it.
a) 1.08 is NOT the final number or a "rating" number, this 1.08 number that you have is called the fast nationals. The final numbers will be in by tomorrow or Thursday at the latest, you will see boxingscene post the final numbers in the news section once they are in as well.
b) Spence vs Garcia had 5x the amount of promo that Crawford vs Khan had. From up to 5 weeks leading into it...... A press conference on the main fox, a 3 part series called fight camp on the main fox, a countdown on the main fox and a face to face on the main fox....all of these aired either on a saturday afternoon or sunday afternoon..on the main fox. ESPN literally started spamming their promo 1 week in advance...too little too late.
c) You have to take into consideration that this card was competing with a PPV and was also a completely meaningless fight. Hurd vs J Rock (May), and then Charlo vs Harrison part 2 (June) both do well over 2 million, a lot of eyes will be tuned in for those..especially the latter.
False post...this is based off of the fast nationals, which are not an accurate representation of ratings.
Actual ratings will be out mid week.
The peak will be around 1.9 million, real numbers will be out by Wednesday/Thursday...let's wait before over-reacting.
1.9 will be a solid peak considering Spence/Garcia have dominated the promo recently.
I think the biggest ratings are yet to come with Hurd/Jrock and potentially Wilder/Breazle on FOX.
PBC on FOX in general has been doing amazing considering this is North America's reintroduction to boxing. Definitely neck and neck with UFC and much better than what UFC on FOX was doing in 2018.
Mayweather was extremely skilled and fighters that skilled very rarely come along. Stevenson will never come remotely close to being as good as Mayweather was in his prime my opinion.
I barely ever post. Yet I logged in just to say...what in the world are you watching.
If there is anyone that shows supreme skill and talent, it’s Shakur. He does it against everybody. People said Christopher Diaz would expose him, he dominated him. People thought Joet Gonzalez would do the same, he dominated him.
He will dominate everybody.
Might have been one of the greatest fights of the last few years.
Holloway shouting while still fighting "I'm the best boxer in the UFC!".
You must be an absolute casual of the highest degree if you think that was one of the best fights of the past “few years”.
The commentating is meant to be WWE style, so I can’t blame you.
Tonight? It’s on right now. You must be from overseas.
PBC on main FOX is on every month in prime time and has been since December 2018.
FOX is bigger than ABC in 2020. They are also airing a PBC Countdown for Plant vs Truax right before the NFL Game tomorrow.
Top Rank will most likely air a fight on ABC this year as well. It was always the plan with the ESPN deal.
Also, PBC has been on CBS and NBC over the last couple of years.
I'm starting to believe that the people that post in threads like this fall into 3 categories.
-Living under a rock/stuck in the past
-From the UK and have 0 visibility into North America, nor understand how big the PBC on FOX deal is or how it ties into sports in America
-Paid shills
Boxing in America hasn't been this healthy since the 90s. FOX and ESPN picking up boxing (contractually, NOT counting the time share era) has been the reintroduction to boxing that America needed....it is going to take time, yet it is off to a great start). HBO damn near buried it towards the end. The coverage across all networks is as big as it has ever been.
Who has brought boxing back into the mainstream over the last 2 years? PBC
Who airs Training camp Countdown shows, studio shows, and fights EVERY month for 2 fights a month (non ppv) PBC
What was the most watched combat sports show in America last year thanks to the new FOX deal, even outperforming UFC? PBC on FOX
Who has an app that has production value similar to 1990s Wrestling? DAZN
Who has failed to garner any interest for any fighter outside of Joshua/Canelo? DAZN
Who has failed when it comes to producing any content for any fighter outside of Joshua or Canelo even on THEIR OWN YOUTUBE CHANNEL? DAZN
Where to boxers go to minimize their profile and kill their own career? DAZN
Where do you want to go if you want to fly under the radar and not be noticed as a fighter? DAZN
Who paid Mikey Garcia 7 million to fighter Jessie Vargas in a completely meaningless fight that had 0 hype? DAZN
I don't understand how you can be an advocate for boxing and also be a DAZN shill/fan. I've had DAZN since day 1 and it has done nothing but dissapoint me. They FAIL to garner any intrest in the sport.
Crab in the bucket theory. DAZN is literally like the one crab at the bottom of the bucket that is still trying to pull FOX and ESPN down. Boxing is PRIMING and RIPE to break out...yet DAZN is like that one crab that is holding it back.
IF you want GROWTH for the sport, you literally CAN NOT be against PBC/TOP RANK/FOX/ESPN.
DAZN just doesn't move the needle in any way, which is NOT healthy for boxing.
There are no hard feelings, this is nothing emotional, this is nothing that is biased. The simple fact is this DAZN has less of an outlet than HBO...think about that for a second.
DAZN's lack of ability to garner ANY interest for fights is just mind boggling. Even Canelo's star has FADED since being on DAZN.
Tell me one thing they did for Canelo outside of 40 days? They had him on a Complex sneaker review show on youtube.
What else?
Are Canelo, Joshua, GGG on ESPN or FOX shows? Are they trending on social media? Is the mainstream talking about them based on DAZN or their past?
Joshua, Canelo and GGG or ANYBODY on DAZN will NEVER be featured on anything ESPN, FOX, ABC, CBS etc for anything outside of tiny paid segments.
It will literally be impossible for DAZN to have ANY outlet the way they are currently operating.
The alternative is the internet....yet the problem is DAZN is TERRIBLE at their own internet marketing and promotion as well. They can't even produce any content for anyone outside of their big 3 "stars".
NOT healthy.
I clearly said to not include any fighters that got promoted by Golden Boy Promotions.
So go back and fix your list.
Can you show me 1 piece of evidence, JUST 1 of any type of promotion that Golden Boy did for the Charlo twins? Just 1 thing..it shouldn't be hard since GBP promoted them aggressively right?
I can literally post QUALITY content and promotional videos straight out of PBC on FOX or Showtime youtube that have over half a million hits each promoting the fight.
Nobody else is producing this type of content for their mid tier stars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX9cIIJhWEQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diUpnrEeuEA
This is not new by the way.
Christian Hammer fight
This accusation from last summer
Both Wilder fights.
Where there is smoke, there is fire.
At this point we can't deny that there is consistently something going on with Tyson's gloves.
Because hes throwing slapping punches??
Someone already showed other examples of that too! You guys are such embarrassments lmfao.
With a fully wrapped wrist/fist, and fully laced gloves...your wrist should not be flapping in anyway shape or form IN THE AIR, especially with no impact!!!!!!!!!!!
There definitely does seem to be something fishy with the left hand/left glove. No way a glove should bend like that at the tip.
The only definite way to tell would be to see if someone can find a shot of him with both hands to the side and see if the left is longer than the right.
His left arm/reach DOES seem awfully long.
Let's keep it current, 2020 and US/North America focused.
5 years ago it would have been no question, the UFC was buzzing heavy and guys like Floyd and Manny were on their way out..there was little light for boxing..
Since about 2017 Boxing in general has been picking up a lot of momentum over the last 3 years thanks to the heavyweight resurgence, and a lot of younger fighters entering their primes, as well as prospects with social media appeal.
ESPN and FOX are also playing a huge part, there hasn't been this type of mainstream attention on boxing in a long, long time...this is MUCH bigger than it ever was on HBO. Guys like Wilder and Fury have literally more than tripled their social media following in 2 years.
I would say at this present moment it is pretty even.
I am seeing much more boxing videos and boxing content, it's starting to become normal, a lot of regular people are starting to get into boxing...mitt training etc.
I'm also seeing a resurgence of pure boxing gyms with a modern twist.
I would imagine that it would be even bigger if boxing was under 1 major league like the UFC has a monopoly over MMA. It would unquestionably be bigger than MMA if that was the case as it's so much easier to push content consistently across the board and the pool of megastars and stars that get attention would be pretty deep.
That being said...even with the fragmented nature of "boxing" and all the different parties involved, the sport has done an amazing job of re-emerging (thanks in part to the ESPN and FOX deals, as well as the overall deep talent pool across almost every division right now)
The only problem is that it's on waaay too late if you don't live in the west coast. Even 9:30 p.m. central time during the week is cutting it close. People work during the week.
Don't worry, after this Friday, I think they're pretty much replaying it almost every day on FS2, along with the Uzcategui/Plant Countdown show, and Inside PBC as well.
Check your listings, it's going to be playing at multiple times/days leading up to the fight.
Here is the thing.
DAZN is doing a terrible job at marketing. You cant blame any fighter for not wanting to sign there. It's still in the early stages.
Andrade has a fight NEXT WEEK!! and there hasn't been 1 LICK of promotion anywhere! Not even a press conference on youtube for crying out loud!
How would Matchroom have faired if they signed anyone else? Those fighters would have been standed on a damn island on DAZN.
Hearn/Matchroom have GOT to step up their marketing/promotion in the US...online is the only way they can acheive this, yet PBC is even outdoing them on the online marketing/promo with the FOX social media machine. For PBC on Fox even the fighters on the FS1 based cards are getting the full online promotional push along with dedicated Countdown and Face to Face shows playing non stop on television.
This is going to be a slow uphill battle for Matchroom/DAZN..unless they drastically up their game plan and start putting in more effort on the promotional end.
How's the UFC on ESPN deal working out?
I noticed that they will have more shows on ESPN+ than the regular ESPN station.
I think long term it will pay off...yet in the short term it's going to be strange, they're airing the PRELIMS for most cards on ESPN, with the main on ESPN +. They did make a big investment in it though. Problem is, has UFC/MMA peaked?
This is boxing's first crack at the mainstream in decades.
When have we ever seen 48x new fighter profiles aired on t.v a year, face to face shows and nightly studio shows......all replayed to death?
Exciting times.
Its on FS2......
Ya, it was on FS1, they are just showing it again on FS2 (FS2 replays a lot of the FS1 shows). They will also air it again on FS1 and FS2 all over the week.
This is basically how you shove boxing down the general public's throat.
Yeah man both sides must really love this deal. I guess after the UFC left to ESPN, Fox craves that content. We'll see some new stars out of this.
Yeah, speaking of the UFC, this is the exact same formula they used to build guys up and create stars.
In Boxing we only used to have this 1 or 2 times a year at the most and only for the mega stars..now its going to be for 2x fights a month, 4x fighters a month. Big.