Lyoto Machida: karate and the difference between MMA and Boxing strikes.

[billeau2]

Lyoto Machida was renowned for introducing karate into the whole wash of MMA techniques. What if Karate holds a clue as to how strikers could be more effective in MMA? It has become apparent that striking in the MMA does not present well when compared to boxing. There are usually a few stock reasons for this: Takedowns, the effect of a different guard, etc... What about karate?

Karate punches work with a different premise entirely. You square up and punch with the hips, using various degrees of rotation on the punch, depending on the style. Being squared up allows a fighter to avoid take downs, the punches allow one to incorporate body movements and set up quickly for kicks.

Many people believe Karate is an inferior art because of MMA, when in fact, it has more to do with training... Machida kind of proves this because he trained a lot in karate, typical of a professional and was able to use it successfully as part of his arsenal.

Thoughts? is it time to train reverse punches on the bags?

https://********/V3_OMp-8Pio

[Omegamanic]

Lyoto Machida was renowned for introducing karate into the whole wash of MMA techniques. What if Karate holds a clue as to how strikers could be more effective in MMA? It has become apparent that striking in the MMA does not present well when compared to boxing. There are usually a few stock reasons for this: Takedowns, the effect of a different guard, etc... What about karate?

Karate punches work with a different premise entirely. You square up and punch with the hips, using various degrees of rotation on the punch, depending on the style. Being squared up allows a fighter to avoid take downs, the punches allow one to incorporate body movements and set up quickly for kicks.

Many people believe Karate is an inferior art because of MMA mobile welder atlanta, when in fact, it has more to do with training... Machida kind of proves this because he trained a lot in karate, typical of a professional and was able to use it successfully as part of his arsenal.

Thoughts? is it time to train reverse punches on the bags?

https://********/V3_OMp-8Pio

You bring up an interesting point about the potential effectiveness of Karate techniques in MMA striking. While MMA has its own unique challenges due to the combination of striking and grappling, there are certainly aspects of Karate that could be integrated effectively into an MMA striker's toolkit. Let's break down some of your points:

1. Karate's Different Punching Mechanics: Karate emphasizes hip rotation and squared-up stances for its punching techniques. These mechanics could indeed offer advantages in terms of generating power and quick transitions for kicks. In MMA, where fighters need to be ready to defend against takedowns, the squared stance could provide better balance and stability.
2. Incorporating Movement: Karate's emphasis on body movement and angles could help MMA strikers become more elusive and create openings for strikes. Effective footwork and angles can be crucial in avoiding takedowns and setting up strikes in MMA.
3. Training Approach: Machida's success in using Karate in MMA highlights the potential benefits of effective cross-training. While it's true that some Karate techniques might not be directly translatable due to the different ruleset of MMA, training and adapting Karate techniques within an MMA context can lead to innovative and effective striking strategies.
4. Holistic Approach: Successful MMA striking often involves a holistic approach that blends techniques from various disciplines. A fighter might find success by integrating elements of Karate alongside techniques from boxing, Muay Thai, kickboxing, and other martial arts.
5. Training Specifics: Incorporating reverse punches, as you mentioned, can be beneficial for developing a versatile striking game. Training on bags, mitts, and with sparring partners can help MMA strikers become comfortable with different punching angles and mechanics.
6. Adaptation to MMA: It's important to note that any technique, including Karate techniques, needs to be adapted to the MMA context. This might involve adjusting angles, timing, and distance to accommodate the potential threats of takedowns and clinches.

Ultimately, the effectiveness of any technique in MMA depends on the fighter's ability to adapt, train smartly, and strategically apply their skills within the ruleset of the sport. While there might be benefits to incorporating elements of Karate into MMA striking, it's also important to recognize that MMA striking is a distinct discipline with its own nuances and requirements.

For fighters and coaches interested in exploring these possibilities, cross-training, open-mindedness, and creativity in adapting techniques could lead to innovative striking strategies in MMA.

[billeau2]

You bring up an interesting point about the potential effectiveness of Karate techniques in MMA striking. While MMA has its own unique challenges due to the combination of striking and grappling, there are certainly aspects of Karate that could be integrated effectively into an MMA striker's toolkit. Let's break down some of your points:

1. Karate's Different Punching Mechanics: Karate emphasizes hip rotation and squared-up stances for its punching techniques. These mechanics could indeed offer advantages in terms of generating power and quick transitions for kicks. In MMA, where fighters need to be ready to defend against takedowns, the squared stance could provide better balance and stability.
2. Incorporating Movement: Karate's emphasis on body movement and angles could help MMA strikers become more elusive and create openings for strikes. Effective footwork and angles can be crucial in avoiding takedowns and setting up strikes in MMA.
3. Training Approach: Machida's success in using Karate in MMA highlights the potential benefits of effective cross-training. While it's true that some Karate techniques might not be directly translatable due to the different ruleset of MMA, training and adapting Karate techniques within an MMA context can lead to innovative and effective striking strategies.
4. Holistic Approach: Successful MMA striking often involves a holistic approach that blends techniques from various disciplines. A fighter might find success by integrating elements of Karate alongside techniques from boxing, Muay Thai, kickboxing, and other martial arts.
5. Training Specifics: Incorporating reverse punches, as you mentioned, can be beneficial for developing a versatile striking game. Training on bags, mitts, and with sparring partners can help MMA strikers become comfortable with different punching angles and mechanics.
6. Adaptation to MMA: It's important to note that any technique, including Karate techniques, needs to be adapted to the MMA context. This might involve adjusting angles, timing, and distance to accommodate the potential threats of takedowns and clinches.

Ultimately, the effectiveness of any technique in MMA depends on the fighter's ability to adapt, train smartly, and strategically apply their skills within the ruleset of the sport. While there might be benefits to incorporating elements of Karate into MMA striking, it's also important to recognize that MMA striking is a distinct discipline with its own nuances and requirements.

For fighters and coaches interested in exploring these possibilities, cross-training, open-mindedness, and creativity in adapting techniques could lead to innovative striking strategies in MMA.

Great Points. Machida does subtle things that show his karate training. The roundhouse kick in traditional karate is done by turning the hip over at the last minute and traditionally with the ball of the foot, though it is always taught so the instep can be used. The Thai roundhouse, also a great kick, is done more by generating power in the turning of the leg, as though it is a virtual club... Interesting aside, both kicks generate the most power if the leg is kept as parallel to the target as possible. The nice thing about a Japanese Karate roundhouse is, you can set it up so it looks like a front kick and change up without telegraphing.

the front kick is also a great technique in Japanese karate, similar in Okinawan styles as well... It is in between a stomp kick and snap kick. It can be done with a lot of power and speed.

[OctoberRed]

Great Points. Machida does subtle things that show his karate training. The roundhouse kick in traditional karate is done by turning the hip over at the last minute and traditionally with the ball of the foot, though it is always taught so the instep can be used. The Thai roundhouse, also a great kick, is done more by generating power in the turning of the leg, as though it is a virtual club... Interesting aside, both kicks generate the most power if the leg is kept as parallel to the target as possible. The nice thing about a Japanese Karate roundhouse is, you can set it up so it looks like a front kick and change up without telegraphing.

the front kick is also a great technique in Japanese karate, similar in Okinawan styles as well... It is in between a stomp kick and snap kick. It can be done with a lot of power and speed.

Machida is one of the few guys to actually pull off the Karate Kid kick to win a fight

[billeau2]

Machida is one of the few guys to actually pull off the Karate Kid kick to win a fight

So as smart individuals let us ask "why is that?" As someone who studied Karate for many years, obtaining a Nidan when a Nidan meant something... I have some clues. I happened to study Okinawan karate, (Sho Ran Ryu Ha), but trained many Shotokan people. Most of the karate people I encountered... and this was in a HOTbed of activity! Southern MD was near Washington, Baltimore and had many big military bases... I had a fighting club in college and we had events where guys came from all these areas to mix it up... And here is what I can say: 99% of those guys had what I would characterize as very limited fighting ability. They did not train to fight with real contact, and had no clue how to deal in the ring. I actually had a challenge of a sort where I would fight anyone during sessions, responding to the level of attack received and... the only real aggressive attacks I got where from my students and when my teacher came down to give a seminar.

What this tells me was people were not training properly to fight. So Nobody was really able to use karate in the ring. As a matter of fact, the first karate guy who fought in the UFC, against a Gracie guy? He was a pedigree being a student of the great karateka/Judoka John Blume, but he did not use karate in the ring! And the full contact karate systems? Like Kick Boxing, they are a concession to other arts, they don't really use karate to fight. So in reality, karate when actually trained properly is a devistating fighting art. I can attest to this. But until Machida there were no traditional karate schools that trained people for fighting.

I could go into a lot of specifics here: But I think karate, properly trained, and of course, with preparations for all ranges of combat... Is a fighting art. ironickly? Shotokan is probably the most handicaped of all the systems! Okinawan styles are much more combat engineered lol. Yet Machida, through training and dedication used the most combat basic of all the systems and prevailed. Finally, on the kick: The Shotokan round kick is a great kick for combat! You turn the hip over at the last moment and generate considerable force through this turning the hip over. It is harder to master than a Thai Kick, both are excellent for the ring. The Shotokan front kick is decent... It is like a combo of a snap and thrust kick. I think there are better front kicks for fighting, but Machida uses the technique very well to split the guard at a distance.

[Thunderstruck]

In the history of mma I think machida was the only one to have success.I believe he also boasted of Kung fu training?Karate in early ufc when it was discipline vs discipline mostly before the hybrid fighters starting coming around failed miserably especially against basic wrestling.I have seen karate fail many times in the streets .Back in n the day in cal city and nw Indiana tons of aggressive schools and hard ass black belts as bouncers ect and every time unless the guy was drunk or inexperienced and gave the karate guy room to maneuver they got beat without fail by true street fighters.Ever see a turtle on its back.I know they speak well when they talk of their art and with words they tell you how they would handle any situation or type of fighter but the reality is hard core ass kickers don’t give you time to fight your perfect fight.

[famicommander]

People criticize Karate because most people who train it only do kata, one-step sparring, three-step sparring, and/or point fighting. For every one guy doing legit Kyokushin or Seidokaikan or Kudo or Enshin Karate training there are 5000 kids at a strip mall dojo just wasting their parents' money. There are plenty of Karateka who can fight for real but since it's the most popular martial art it also has the lowest quality control.

Machida didn't just jump from sport karate into MMA, himself. He has been doing karate since age 3, competitive sumo since age 8, boxing and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu since age 16, and in his late teens/early 20s he traveled to Thailand to study Muay Thai and then to Japan to study catch wrestling. He had an incredibly diverse martial arts background before he ever stepped into an MMA fight. He didn't just specialize in one style and then cobble together the fundamentals of the other styles and then jump into MMA like most guys. He had years of specialized training in multiple discrete styles before he ever tried to mix them together.

[billeau2]

In the history of mma I think machida was the only one to have success.I believe he also boasted of Kung fu training?Karate in early ufc when it was discipline vs discipline mostly before the hybrid fighters starting coming around failed miserably especially against basic wrestling.I have seen karate fail many times in the streets .Back in n the day in cal city and nw Indiana tons of aggressive schools and hard ass black belts as bouncers ect and every time unless the guy was drunk or inexperienced and gave the karate guy room to maneuver they got beat without fail by true street fighters.Ever see a turtle on its back.I know they speak well when they talk of their art and with words they tell you how they would handle any situation or type of fighter but the reality is hard core ass kickers don’t give you time to fight your perfect fight.

You have to ultimately go with the training, not the art. Ill tell you why. People who have experience fighting adapt the art to their purposes. Ill give you an example, I bounced in some pretty bad places, for years... Guess what art tends to work really well if you are a bouncer? Hint: apparently it also works well for Japanese police who have a reputation as being able to smash when they need to... Akido!

I shiat you not lol... Two reasons: A lot of the locking techniques involve gaining side position and work really well for grabbing the arm. Also, because the art has movements that work against long range sword attacks, these same movements also work when you are suddenly, initially bum rushed. Now... I wouldn't use Akido to fight against someone the same way I would as a bouncer who adapted the art to getting to a person's side and executing a lock.

karate works well, IF you actually use it and not kick boxing with karate punches. It works well because it is relatively simple, no footwork really, useful under stress... You do however have to adapt it to your purposes. Wrestlers have a lot of advantages one on one, but in any more random situation, the habits that help them actually hurt them. If you try to take down, go to the ground in a melee, you will get stomped out. Boxing also has problems. If you punch like you do with gloves on you break hands very easily. I once watched two large roided bouncers chase down some little guy. The little guy was scared for his life and ducks as the first bouncer throws a viscious punch that hits a parking meter... broken hand. Bouncer #2 tries to sucker punch the little guy behind his friend, trips, punch hits the sidewalk on the way down... Broken hand #2 lol. No art can substitute for common sense and experience.

[famicommander]

In the history of mma I think machida was the only one to have success.I believe he also boasted of Kung fu training?Karate in early ufc when it was discipline vs discipline mostly before the hybrid fighters starting coming around failed miserably especially against basic wrestling.I have seen karate fail many times in the streets .Back in n the day in cal city and nw Indiana tons of aggressive schools and hard ass black belts as bouncers ect and every time unless the guy was drunk or inexperienced and gave the karate guy room to maneuver they got beat without fail by true street fighters.Ever see a turtle on its back.I know they speak well when they talk of their art and with words they tell you how they would handle any situation or type of fighter but the reality is hard core ass kickers don’t give you time to fight your perfect fight.

Georges St Pierre, Bas Rutten, Stephen Thompson, Frank Mir, Guy Mezger, Gunnar Nelson, Lyoto Machida, Robert Whittaker, Kyoji Horiguchi, Chuck Liddel, Michelle Waterson, Katsunori Kikuno, and Uriah Hall are all Karate black belts.

Amanda Nunes also started out in Karate before moving to Capoeira, boxing, Judo, BJJ, and then finally MMA.

[billeau2]

People criticize Karate because most people who train it only do kata, one-step sparring, three-step sparring, and/or point fighting. For every one guy doing legit Kyokushin or Seidokaikan or Kudo or Enshin Karate training there are 5000 kids at a strip mall dojo just wasting their parents' money. There are plenty of Karateka who can fight for real but since it's the most popular martial art it also has the lowest quality control.

Machida didn't just jump from sport karate into MMA, himself. He has been doing karate since age 3, competitive sumo since age 8, boxing and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu since age 16, and in his late teens/early 20s he traveled to Thailand to study Muay Thai and then to Japan to study catch wrestling. He had an incredibly diverse martial arts background before he ever stepped into an MMA fight. He didn't just specialize in one style and then cobble together the fundamentals of the other styles and then jump into MMA like most guys. He had years of specialized training in multiple discrete styles before he ever tried to mix them together.

A lot of people who look at styles regarding the original UFC do not realize that the Brazilian fighters, like Gracie and guys like Macheda, were, for all practical purposes, professional fighters. The other stylists trained part time, with a great variation in the quality of their programs and abilities. It would be like a stock broker from Gleason's gym taking on a professional/ or well trained amatuer fighter.