LIFTING WEIGHTS!!! Yay or Nay???

[Danny Gunz]

you could have gained speed and strength. If you don't do a specific training for speed you won't see any difference in speed, since you are kind of a "beginner" in this aspect of training.

im far from a beginner in training

[Bretto2]

lift slow, throw slow, lift fast, throw fast plyometrics and olympic lifts are the best in my opinion, we aint tryna get beach bodys we tryna be the best porformance athletes we can be the old saying speed = power, why lift heavy weights for power to increase your speed, when you can do plyometrics and strength weights for speed?
anyway i do either 5x5s as fast as a can with about a minute break between each set. Or light weights for about 20-25 reps, and also do circuits which vary from 20 seconds to a minute on each activity. just my 2c

[mmrooms]

im far from a beginner in training

and you didn't know how to measure or train speed?

[PunchDrunk]

lift slow, throw slow, lift fast, throw fast plyometrics and olympic lifts are the best in my opinion, we aint tryna get beach bodys we tryna be the best porformance athletes we can be the old saying speed = power, why lift heavy weights for power to increase your speed, when you can do plyometrics and strength weights for speed?

You don't lift heavy to increase speed, you lift heavy to increase strength. Since strength and power or correlated, higher strength gives you potential to generate higher speed. If you only do the plyo stuff, you won't progress beyond a certain point, depending on your strength. At that point, getting stronger will give you new potential to improve your plyo trainig as well. Therefore, doing both heavy lifting and plyometrics is the superior method.

[mmrooms]

Look at the formula as you yourself has written it. It clearly states that F is a result of m*a.

yes but speed and acceleration are two completely different things.

Exemplum given: a feather and a cannon ball will fall at the same time on the moon, because they have different maximal speed but same accelertion.

Not trying to be a prick, but the part of your quote that I highlighted seriously makes me doubt that you read said book....

Infact I never read it!

I give it again a quick look on google books (there's a big preview there) and I again thought that it spends too much time on weight exercise.... Do you think I am wrong? Having you read it, do you still advice me to read it?

You don't lift heavy to increase speed, you lift heavy to increase strength.

Trough the ability to call more motor neurons at once, right?

[Danny Gunz]

and you didn't know how to measure or train speed?

you took that first post i had way out of context, when i said my speed hasnt changed i meant it hasnt changed noticeably.

But i know how to train speed, i dont know what made u think that

[PunchDrunk]

yes but speed and acceleration are two completely different things.

Exemplum given: a feather and a cannon ball will fall at the same time on the moon, because they have different maximal speed but same accelertion.

No, they are not completely different, without acceleration you get no speed.
Furthermore, ironically enough, you're the one talking about speed from the beginning, when in fact in athletic movement, acceleration is more important (acceleration is how you achieve speed). A punch is not thrown at a constant speed, it is an acceleration all the way through until it hits, for instance.

I don't even understand what you're trying to say with your example, as it is complete nonsense.

Infact I never read it!

I give it again a quick look on google books (there's a big preview there) and I again thought that it spends too much time on weight exercise.... Do you think I am wrong? Having you read it, do you still advice me to read it?

The book explains the different physical requirements (different types of power, strength, muscular endurance, power endurance, aerobic endurance etc.) needed for athletic prowess, how to train for each one separately, and how to periodize/plan a training program where each of these requirements complement each other.
Chapter 10 is called Conversion phase - conversion to power, and is all about plyometrics and so on.
I had read the book the first time I adviced you to read it, and I still advice you to do so.

Trough the ability to call more motor neurons at once, right?

That is one factor, yes.

[Hearnsz]

Look at the formula as you yourself has written it. It clearly states that F is a result of m*a.

Another point: A punch (and any athletic movement, really) is thrown as an accelleration, not at a constant speed.

1. I have no idea what kind of reasoning you're using, but it's wrong. An object can ONLY accelerate if there is working a resulting force on it. It's the second law of Newton, and a pretty easy one to understand aswell.

2. What on earth makes you think a punch can't be thrown at constant speed? Seriously, think about it: if a car hits you going from 1mph to 2mph, won't hurt you more than a car moving at a constant speed of 100mph will it?

For the last time; the acceleration is a RESULT of the force ON the object. The force is NOT a result of the acceleration OF the object. Is that so hard to understand?

No, they are not completely different, without acceleration you get no speed.
Furthermore, ironically enough, you're the one talking about speed from the beginning, when in fact in athletic movement, acceleration is more important (acceleration is how you achieve speed). A punch is not thrown at a constant speed, it is an acceleration all the way through until it hits, for instance.

1. Systems aren't naturally suposed to be not moving like you think. When an object is moving at a constant speed, and there is no resulting force working on it, the system will keep moving in a straight line, at the same constant speed. (first law of Newton) Ofcourse, on earth the system will slow down because of a resulting force, composed by friction and many more forces.

2. The reason most people throw accelerating punches is because they their fists are by their face for protection, NOT moving. So ofcourse you will need to accelerate to make a high SPEED which is important for punchingpower. (impulse!! NOT force)

I don't even understand what you're trying to say with your example, as it is complete nonsense.

Every system has the same acceleration when it's under the same gravitational influence. If an object is close to the earth's surface, the system formed by the object and the earth will cause an acceleration of the object, regardless of it's mass. The acceleration depends on the mass of the earth and the distance from it's centre. That's why the acceleration of an object is different on another planet. The reason feathers and golden bars don't accelerate the same on earth is because there are more forces than just the gravitional force working: archimedesforce etc...

If there is an object under no gravitional unfluence (theoretically of course) it will maintin it's constant speed or it's non moving state.

Anyway; if you wish to truly know how physics works; i suggest you read physics books, rather than pseudo-scientific training books written by idiotic gurus.

[RichGriff]

i think that its person to person because i lift 8-12 reps of course but i think that when i lift i control the ring more.... but i also only lift on days when i am off for boxing and i also train for speed anyways so i dont see a differance in speed besides the added speed i gfet from my shadow boxing and training... i just feel more solid and in control... testosterone maybe

[PunchDrunk]

1. I have no idea what kind of reasoning you're using, but it's wrong. An object can ONLY accelerate if there is working a resulting force on it. It's the second law of Newton, and a pretty easy one to understand aswell.

Ah, I get what you're saying now. You are right, you need a force (muscle contraction) to accelerate the body into a punch. The force/power I'm talking about is when the punch impacts on the opponent. The force is determined by the mass of the fighter throwing it, and the acceleration he puts into it. I'm surprised that you don't realize the relationship between those factors. It's quite simple, really.

2. What on earth makes you think a punch can't be thrown at constant speed? Seriously, think about it: if a car hits you going from 1mph to 2mph, won't hurt you more than a car moving at a constant speed of 100mph will it?

Did I say it can't? I said it doesn't. The reason being that a punch is only as long as your arm, plus the step/body torque you put into it. Even for a tall heavyweight that translates into four feet of travel max, and more likely two to three feet. This is just about enough to accelerate the hand to the maximal speed you can achieve. Therefore a punch is thrown as an acceleration, not at a constant speed. Come on, it's not like you can get the guy to stand still, build your speed up to a certain speed, hold there, and still hit him... geez, do you even box???

For the last time; the acceleration is a RESULT of the force ON the object. The force is NOT a result of the acceleration OF the object. Is that so hard to understand?

You're the one who doesn't understand a flying **** about this subject, or what I'm talking about, that much is becoming clear...

1. Systems aren't naturally suposed to be not moving like you think. When an object is moving at a constant speed, and there is no resulting force working on it, the system will keep moving in a straight line, at the same constant speed. (first law of Newton) Ofcourse, on earth the system will slow down because of a resulting force, composed by friction and many more forces.

2. The reason most people throw accelerating punches is because they their fists are by their face for protection, NOT moving. So ofcourse you will need to accelerate to make a high SPEED which is important for punchingpower. (impulse!! NOT force)



Every system has the same acceleration when it's under the same gravitational influence. If an object is close to the earth's surface, the system formed by the object and the earth will cause an acceleration of the object, regardless of it's mass. The acceleration depends on the mass of the earth and the distance from it's centre. That's why the acceleration of an object is different on another planet. The reason feathers and golden bars don't accelerate the same on earth is because there are more forces than just the gravitional force working: archimedesforce etc...

If there is an object under no gravitional unfluence (theoretically of course) it will maintin it's constant speed or it's non moving state.

Anyway; if you wish to truly know how physics works; i suggest you read physics books, rather than pseudo-scientific training books written by idiotic gurus.

Blah blah... I suggest that if you want to discuss physics, you go to a physics board, and leave this one to people who are interested in training. Bye!