One thing I will say about MMA that i prefer over boxing....

[kafkod]

I would disagree. He got the title shots early because of who his promoter was. He also didn’t beat the same quality of opposition that a ray leonard has defeated.

You can argue that the 3 best openers Loma has fought are Salido, Lopez and Rigo. Throw in Russell if you wish.

He is 2-2 In those fights. He beat the smaller guys and lost to the bigger guys.

I think Loma is a great fighter but there is no way he is an ATG or some generational talent.

Loma is now 13 - 2 in world title fights against the best opponents available in 3 weight divisions. That's a hell of a resume, and it was Loma who won those fights, not his promoter. A lot of fighters have powerful promoters, but they don't have resumes like that!

[saintpat]

That’s one of the things I hate about MMA.

Someone gets hyped as the next big thing and then they get mauled and ... along comes another next big thing.

As a very, very casual MMA fan in all the years it has been around to me you never see anyone rise to greatness. you’re ‘great’ today and gone tomorrow. There are no Muhammad Ali’s or Sugar Ray Robinsons who raise the level of the game and set a standard.

[The Big Dunn]

Loma is now 13 - 2 in world title fights against the best opponents available in 3 weight divisions. That's a hell of a resume, and it was Loma who won those fights, not his promoter. A lot of fighters have powerful promoters, but they don't have resumes like that!

You’re avoiding the point. Loma was put in title fights ahead of other guys because of who his promoter is.

Bob did the same for zou shimming as another poster pointed out.

There are also fighters that had world titles When they were much younger than Loma.

If I take those men, have them fight the same number of amateur fights, and put them in at 25 they very well may have the same resume.

He has wins over marriaga and a dude tank ktfo. He has 2 losses to the best guys he faced.

Not saying he isn’t a great fighter but he isn’t a generational talent or anywhere near an ATG.

[TMLT87]

I remember watching a promo and thinking to myself, "wow, these fighters are both big time, this must be a massive fight for that division." The you look up the records and it's between a guy who is 7-4 and a guy who is 15-12. A nobody vs a has been.

Which fight was this?

As a very, very casual MMA fan in all the years it has been around to me you never see anyone rise to greatness. you’re ‘great’ today and gone tomorrow. There are no Muhammad Ali’s or Sugar Ray Robinsons who raise the level of the game and set a standard.

Jon Jones? Anderson? GSP? Fedor?

[saintpat]

Which fight was this?



Jon Jones? Anderson? GSP? Fedor?

I assume you’re agreeing with me?

Who is the Muhammad Ali/Sugar Ray Robinson of MMA? Who has had a Joe Louis-type reign?

The mostly pop up as the OMG next big thing and the next thing you know they’re done.

[kafkod]

You’re avoiding the point. Loma was put in title fights ahead of other guys because of who his promoter is.

Bob did the same for zou shimming as another poster pointed out.

I addressed that point, and you seem to have completely missed the point I made in doing so ... yes, Bob did the same for Zou Shimming, and is anybody touting him as an ATG?

There are also fighters that had world titles When they were much younger than Loma.

If I take those men, have them fight the same number of amateur fights, and put them in at 25 they very well may have the same resume.

Yes ... if they were good enough to win all but one of those hundreds of amateur fights and pick up two Olympic gold medals on the way, then they might have the same resume as Loma and be getting touted as ATGs by their fans

He has wins over marriaga and a dude tank ktfo. He has 2 losses to the best guys he faced.

Not saying he isn’t a great fighter but he isn’t a generational talent or anywhere near an ATG.

He also beat other guys who weren't Marriaga and didn't get KTFO by Tank. Salido was definitely not one of the 2 best guys Loma faced. He and Teo were probably the 2 biggest though, Salido didn't try to make weight and came in 11lbs heavier. Teo was looked even bigger than that.

And as you mentioned Tank, what's your excuse going to be for him not fighting Teo and Haney? Because he won't fight either of them, and you will have an excuse for him.

[TMLT87]

I
Who is the Muhammad Ali/Sugar Ray Robinson of MMA? Who has had a Joe Louis-type reign?

Apples to oranges comparison. Not to mention you're bringing up names from the 40s-70s which gives them the benefit of seeming larger than life because they're from such a long time ago. How about compare the greats that have emerged in both sports over the last 15-20 years?

The mostly pop up as the OMG next big thing and the next thing you know they’re done.

Its pretty simple, things move faster in the UFC than they do in boxing. Guys dont spend years cherry picking, record padding and trying to get their hands on one of 4 available belts as they slowly build to a big money fight. Obviously stars will rise and fall a lot faster when the top fighters are facing each other regularly. Just look at Adesanya right now, the guy wasnt even in the UFC three years ago, now hes on a 9 fight UFC win streak, has beaten four top 5 ranked guys in a row and within the last 12 months has won the belt and defended it twice. Thats not a bad thing.

[The Big Dunn]

I addressed that point, and you seem to have completely missed the point I made in doing so ... yes, Bob did the same for Zou Shimming, and is anybody touting him as an ATG?



Yes ... if they were good enough to win all but one of those hundreds of amateur fights and pick up two Olympic gold medals on the way, then they might have the same resume as Loma and be getting touted as ATGs by their fans



He also beat other guys who weren't Marriaga and didn't get KTFO by Tank. Salido was definitely not one of the 2 best guys Loma faced. He and Teo were probably the 2 biggest though, Salido didn't try to make weight and came in 11lbs heavier. Teo was looked even bigger than that.

And as you mentioned Tank, what's your excuse going to be for him not fighting Teo and Haney? Because he won't fight either of them, and you will have an excuse for him.

I got your point, I just don’t buy it. Loma was essentially “ born on 2nd base” yet gets credit for hitting a double. I will not do that.

Great fighter, yes. ATG, no.

You’ve seen what I’ve posted about tank not fighting either so you are being fake claiming I will make an excuse.

You can take either of the 4 I listed, his record is still 2-2 Against his best company, one of which was Rigo who was significantly smaller.

Let’s see what happens now against high risk, low reward tough opponents like Berchelt, Stevenson, haney and Valdez.

[Ray*]

I have watched a lot of MMA since the lockdown and Izzy Adesanya has even got me more into it. Am expecting him to lose and still have a career, with boxing it’s “Its over”... And that’s the fans. Not sure why everyone seems to blame Mayweather for that, blame the dumb fans who use a loss as a career ending pathway. If a boxer loses and then seems like he is psychologically damaged then fine, maybe career over.

[LoadedWraps]

I would disagree. He got the title shots early because of who his promoter was. He also didn’t beat the same quality of opposition that a ray leonard has defeated.

You can argue that the 3 best openers Loma has fought are Salido, Lopez and Rigo. Throw in Russell if you wish.

He is 2-2 In those fights. He beat the smaller guys and lost to the bigger guys.

I think Loma is a great fighter but there is no way he is an ATG or some generational talent.

I disagree with you on that.

Bradley also commented the same idea on ESPN, Lomachenko is no less great, and can go on to do more great things.

I think it's clear as day he is beyond a generational talent. I actually think it's silly for anyone who agreed with me a week ago to pivot in a different direction after one fight. ATGs lose, overreacting to a loss is the flaw of a fan.

Only Fury as an active fighter has a comparable combination of IQ, defense, complex offensive repertoire, mastery of multiple stances, agility, speed, heart, and stamina.

Roman might be that next level below them.

Elite fighters without question. No way you can appreciate guys like Pep, SRR, SRL, Locche, Ali, Sweet Pea, Floyd....and then try and say Lomachenko and Fury aren't cut from that same cloth. Its hypocrisy. When you see truly elite prize fighters that embody "hit and don't be hit", you know it.