One thing I will say about MMA that i prefer over boxing....

[MasterPlan]

It depends on how they take the loss.
Jermell Charlo did fine after his loss.
Right did not.

[kafkod]

I got your point, I just don’t buy it. Loma was essentially “ born on 2nd base” yet gets credit for hitting a double. I will not do that.

Great fighter, yes. ATG, no.

You’ve seen what I’ve posted about tank not fighting either so you are being fake claiming I will make an excuse.

You can take either of the 4 I listed, his record is still 2-2 Against his best company, one of which was Rigo who was significantly smaller.

Let’s see what happens now against high risk, low reward tough opponents like Berchelt, Stevenson, haney and Valdez.

I'm not even saying that Loma is an ATG, just that your reason for disqualifying him - he's only had 16 fights - is not a valid one when you think about it objectively.

[TheCell8]

You can blame Mayweather for that. He has indoctrinated and poisoned the mind of all boxing fans.

[kafkod]

I got your point, I just don’t buy it. Loma was essentially “ born on 2nd base” yet gets credit for hitting a double. I will not do that.

Great fighter, yes. ATG, no.

You’ve seen what I’ve posted about tank not fighting either so you are being fake claiming I will make an excuse.

You can take either of the 4 I listed, his record is still 2-2 Against his best company, one of which was Rigo who was significantly smaller.

Let’s see what happens now against high risk, low reward tough opponents like Berchelt, Stevenson, haney and Valdez.

Thinking about this ... ATG comes as much from a historical perspective on a fighters career as from how good they are in their day, and that involves a historical perspective on the careers of the guys they fought, win or lose.

Teo is already the youngest 4 belt world champ ever. He has other talented prospects in his current division, and some potentially huge fights at 140 or even 147. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Teo might achieve ATG great status himself, which would make Loma's case stronger, even though he lost. He is a natural FW, after all.

Rigo was being talked about as an ATG till he quit against Loma. And imo, because of the size difference between he and Loma, he still would be, if he'd toughed it out and gone down fighting.

[The Big Dunn]

I disagree with you on that.

Bradley also commented the same idea on ESPN, Lomachenko is no less great, and can go on to do more great things.

I think it's clear as day he is beyond a generational talent. I actually think it's silly for anyone who agreed with me a week ago to pivot in a different direction after one fight. ATGs lose, overreacting to a loss is the flaw of a fan.

Only Fury as an active fighter has a comparable combination of IQ, defense, complex offensive repertoire, mastery of multiple stances, agility, speed, heart, and stamina.

Roman might be that next level below them.

Elite fighters without question. No way you can appreciate guys like Pep, SRR, SRL, Locche, Ali, Sweet Pea, Floyd....and then try and say Lomachenko and Fury aren't cut from that same cloth. Its hypocrisy. When you see truly elite prize fighters that embody "hit and don't be hit", you know it.

I think the flaw in the reasoning is those other guys have completed their career while Fury and Loma are still fighting.

I think it completely fair to re-evaluate an athlete as you get more information.

Wins and losses don’t make a fighter less talented, but they do give us a better sense of how good they are.

I have not suggested Loma is any less talented because he lost. In fact, if you check the rbr thread, I point out how his great defense kept him from being totally dominated early.

From a greatness standpoint, This fight brings that into question if for no other reason than the fact he didn’t fight for 6 rounds.

He looked totally unprepared for what Teo brought to the ring.

Let’s see where he goes from here. I can respect your opinion but if he ends up With losses to the best guys on his resume then I think many will re evaluate.

I dont see how that isn’t fair.

[The Big Dunn]

Thinking about this ... ATG comes as much from a historical perspective on a fighters career as from how good they are in their day, and that involves a historical perspective on the careers of the guys they fought, win or lose.

Teo is already the youngest 4 belt world champ ever. He has other talented prospects in his current division, and some potentially huge fights at 140 or even 147. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Teo might achieve ATG great status himself, which would make Loma's case stronger, even though he lost. He is a natural FW, after all.

Rigo was being talked about as an ATG till he quit against Loma. And imo, because of the size difference between he and Loma, he still would be, if he'd toughed it out and gone down fighting.

Let’s see what he does. Again I don’t think there is any question about his talent.

[The Big Dunn]

I'm not even saying that Loma is an ATG, just that your reason for disqualifying him - he's only had 16 fights - is not a valid one when you think about it objectively.

It’s not just that. It’s the fact that imo he lost to the 2 best guys he fought. It’s also that his signature win-Rigo- was against a guy he was significantly bigger than.

It’s also that his wins are exaggerated at a level that is beyond comprehension.

He was being tabbed as an ATG after he beat Marriaga in 2017. Seriously?

A lot of posters have blamed the loss is the lay-off. If that is the case, then is it fair to re evaluate the walters win given his layoff?

There just seemed to be a rush to anoint him and I don’t feel it was warranted right now.

[PRINCEKOOL]

MMA is one stop shopping for the most part. The UFC controls the storylines completely in the US.

I watch some MMA and watch their promotions of "big" fights. They are masters of making any matchup seem like a huge fight. They do a good job of convincing their fans that this is a pick em fight that is massively relevant, they rarely promote records. I remember watching a promo and thinking to myself, "wow, these fighters are both big time, this must be a massive fight for that division." The you look up the records and it's between a guy who is 7-4 and a guy who is 15-12. A nobody vs a has been.

I agree.

Notice how NOBODY can criticize their fighters 'Stephen A Smith was attacked for giving his honest opinion' and the Mixed Martial Arts world? Attempted to make out, that he said something very wrong.

Cowboy Cerrone is meant to be some kind of cult legend, for what exactly? Receiving opportunities to continually fight 'Big deal'.

Look at the look on Rogan's face 'How dare you say anything bad about a UFC fighter, we are the world's most supreme athletes and fighters'

[kafkod]

It’s not just that. It’s the fact that imo he lost to the 2 best guys he fought. It’s also that his signature win-Rigo- was against a guy he was significantly bigger than.

It’s also that his wins are exaggerated at a level that is beyond comprehension.

He was being tabbed as an ATG after he beat Marriaga in 2017. Seriously?

A lot of posters have blamed the loss is the lay-off. If that is the case, then is it fair to re evaluate the walters win given his layoff?

There just seemed to be a rush to anoint him and I don’t feel it was warranted right now.

He was an ATG amateur - considered by many to be the ATG amateur - and most people believed he would broken the record for winning a world professional title in the fewest fights if his opponent had played by the rules - I'm talking about weight, not low blows - so the hype was understandable, really.

[pacmanis1]

Do UFC fans care as much about P4P rankings? I mean I’m pretty sure UFC even has their own P4P rankings but is it nearly as much of a talking point as it is in boxing? Although honestly maybe its not even that big of a talking point in boxing, I’m just a part of that hardcore niche part of the fans that care about mythical rankings.