Is the poster "BKM-" right about a 17yo HS wrestler being able to beat prime M Tyson?

[HandSpeed303]

To the original question : If a prime Mike Tyson and a 17 year wrestler met in an ally to fight, zero knowledge of one another. I say Mike wins, and probably kills the kid on purpose.

Now to the discussion that is at hand about street fights: It took me awhile to recall the times I have seen this exact encounter play out. Boxer/Street fighter vs Wrestler/Street fighter.

Now I'm not talking about grabbing during a street fight. I mean a person that has had the know how of youth, middle school, and high school wrestling experience. I have seen several fights like this, and both fighters had big reps. In these several or so cases the grappler won maybe, let's say 7 of the 9 encounters.

Now in the 2 wins for the non grappler, they were both KO's from a fair stance.. No sucker punches.

Now with all this being said, I think both sides make fair points. I just think some guys don't understand the actual dangers of a semi knowledgeable grappler... Let alone one that really knows what he is doing.

Just my 2 cents...

[REDEEMER]

Anyone who aimlessly states a random kid who wrestles and has grappling experiences mauls Tyson must not know much about combat sports bc rules are ruled out in street fights and when anyone assumes all individuals get labeled the same and makes statements like this well ,they expose themselves . This poster seems to do it more often recently. Mike was extremely tough in the clinch and explosive when he wanted to be, picking a fight with him you better hope you are also physically strong , claiming a 17 year old in general wins isn’t smart at all , Mike was a solid 220 or so and had lighting fast uppercuts and could obviously use elbows and head butts as well as who knows if he felt threatened in a certain position, Wrestlers aren’t proficient in stopping guys they don’t know submition moves really .

[TMLT87]

Honestly, I've been on both boxing and mma forums for a long time and I gotta say objectively the boxing guys are just dumber in general.

Not saying it just because of this debate, guys. The IQ level on boxingscene is just much lower in general.

The "theres no such thing as top control on the street" comment was my personal favorite. Like spending a decade plus developing a BJJ black belt level sweep, sub and escape game from bottom is a waste of time because the real (but naturally illegal in MMA and not pressure tested cause its so deadly) defense against the top game is to thrash around on your back like a fish and try to bite the guy on the shoulder. Weirdly the guy on top wont use any of these same dirty techniques on you though, even though he'd be in a much better position to do so.

[TMLT87]

Hey kafkod, remember how you completely ignored this?

Read the comment you are replying to here. There are rules in MMA which were introduced specifically to make it easier for grapplers to get take downs without being murdered in the process.

From wiki...


"UFC 12 saw the introduction of weight classes and the banning of fish-hooking. For UFC 14, gloves became mandatory, while kicks to the head of a downed opponent were banned. UFC 15 saw limitations on hair pulling, and the banning of strikes to the back of the neck and head, headbutting, small-joint manipulations, and groin strikes"

The most successful fighters in the UFC up to that point were Royce, Severn and Coleman - two wrestlers and a BJJ guy....

Wonder why?

Bonus vid: guy trying to use downward elbows to the back of the head to defend a takedown.



Only thing that would have changed if that was "on the street" is the poor ****er would have been dropped onto concrete. I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume your defense will be "but hes not Mike Tyson though"...right?

[BodyBagz]

Beat Mike at what ?

[kafkod]

Hey kafkod, remember how you completely ignored this?






Wonder why?

Bonus vid: guy trying to use downward elbows to the back of the head to defend a takedown.



Only thing that would have changed if that was "on the street" is the poor ****er would have been dropped onto concrete. I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume your defense will be "but hes not Mike Tyson though"...right?

The rule against downward strikes was one of several that were introduced to try and level out the winning chances of strikers vs grapplers in MMA fights. Some rules favoured grapplers, some favoured strikers. Like I said, the idea was to give both an equal chance of winning, all else being equal.

MMA fights are not street fights. There no rules or referees in a street fight.

[kafkod]

The "theres no such thing as top control on the street" comment was my personal favorite. Like spending a decade plus developing a BJJ black belt level sweep, sub and escape game from bottom is a waste of time because the real (but naturally illegal in MMA and not pressure tested cause its so deadly) defense against the top game is to thrash around on your back like a fish and try to bite the guy on the shoulder. Weirdly the guy on top wont use any of these same dirty techniques on you though, even though he'd be in a much better position to do so.

You don't need to have top control or a black belt to bite your opponent, grab his balls, grab fingers and break them, gouge eyes, etc, etc.

Anybody who talks about top control in the context of a street fight against a vicious, powerful, lightening fast killer like prime Tyson clearly has no idea how extreme and nasty things can get in the street if you mess with the wrong guy.

Your comments betray a staggering level of naivete.

Your black belt level sweep, sub and escape game would be as much use as a peashooter in a war zone against a young Mike Tyson on the cobbles.

You would be out cold before you knew what was happening.

[kafkod]

To the original question : If a prime Mike Tyson and a 17 year wrestler met in an ally to fight, zero knowledge of one another. I say Mike wins, and probably kills the kid on purpose.

Now to the discussion that is at hand about street fights: It took me awhile to recall the times I have seen this exact encounter play out. Boxer/Street fighter vs Wrestler/Street fighter.

Now I'm not talking about grabbing during a street fight. I mean a person that has had the know how of youth, middle school, and high school wrestling experience. I have seen several fights like this, and both fighters had big reps. In these several or so cases the grappler won maybe, let's say 7 of the 9 encounters.

Now in the 2 wins for the non grappler, they were both KO's from a fair stance.. No sucker punches.

Now with all this being said, I think both sides make fair points. I just think some guys don't understand the actual dangers of a semi knowledgeable grappler... Let alone one that really knows what he is doing.

Just my 2 cents...

Fair comments. And I would add that some people definitely don't understand the dangers of an ATG level power punching world heavyweight boxing champion/****** street thug like the young Mike Tyson.

[TMLT87]

Your comments betray a staggering level of naivete.

The sheer ****ing irony of this. You're saying things that you would change your mind about with literally 10 mins of sparring against an even moderately decent grappler, you do understand that right? its hilarious to me that you dont realize how utterly ****ing comical these claims are.

So tell me, which top positions do you think are especially vulnerable to your deadly bites, ball grabs and eye gouges?... full guard? half guard? full mount? side control? what if they take your back? what if they've got wrist control? what do you do if they just posture up in mount, trap one of your arms and start dropping elbows and punches on you? what if they sink in a choke and you've got 5-10 seconds before going out? what if they want to fight dirty too and just sit in your guard driving their thumbs into your eye sockets /biting your nose off/headbutting you/bouncing the back of your head off the floor?

[Tatabanya]

The IQ level on boxingscene is just much lower in general.

And that's the exact reason why they welcomed you here way back in 2006