Is the poster "BKM-" right about a 17yo HS wrestler being able to beat prime M Tyson?

[TMLT87]

****** confirmed.

how is biting going to stop a low single? unless you trained exact take-down defense. no street move stops a take-down.

who is going to have the advantage even with biting. the guy on top or the guy on the bottom?

the guy on top can throw elbows. headbutts. and literally beat the guy on the bottom to death while pinning him to the ground.

Yup. This is always the first thing that comes to mind when people talk about kicks/knees to grounded opponents as a counter to wrestling.



Pretty much every "street" technique is going to work more in favor of the wrestler. You let a dude that can already basically completely control you also be able to knee, headbutt, bite, eye gouge etc you while you're pinned to the ground and the results are gonna be ****ing ugly.

[Tails]

People that speak like BKM, don't know what violence is or? Have not really experienced violence in their lifetime HitmanTommy.

BKM thinks he CAN also handle most boxers in a street fight 'This is what he genuinely believes'. This is the culture that comes with Mixed Martial Arts 'A culture if wannabe hard men'.

Some people can just fight, I did karate as a kid 'And also attended boxing'. And there are people out there, who can just straight up fight 'None of your fancy mixed martial training, will save you or prepare you for these type of people'.

Mike Tyson was one of those people 'A instinctive fighter'.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. People that automatically assume an mma guy or wrestler can beat anybody truly has no clue as to what true violence is or what some people are capable of once you remove all rules and restrictions.

I have seen some ****ed up things happen to people that thought they were badasses. Truth is some people just know how to fight instinctually.

A true fight (not organized) between two adults where one knows how to throw hands and just doesn't give a **** gets ugly real quick.

[BKM-]

People that speak like BKM, don't know what violence is or? Have not really experienced violence in their lifetime HitmanTommy.

BKM thinks he CAN also handle most boxers in a street fight 'This is what he genuinely believes'. This is the culture that comes with Mixed Martial Arts 'A culture if wannabe hard men'.

Some people can just fight, I did karate as a kid 'And also attended boxing'. And there are people out there, who can just straight up fight 'None of your fancy mixed martial training, will save you or prepare you for these type of people'.

Mike Tyson was one of those people 'A instinctive fighter'.

Actually I'm realistic and have no qualms about hurting feelings when it comes to the boxing artform. And it's not because I'm against the sport or anything, boxing was my first love and with my contribution to the history section of this website for the past 14 years I don't even need to get into that.

I started as delusional as you fellas but I grew out of it when I became open minded and actually trained grappling, which is the most physically exhausting combat for sure You can't be delusional and live life with your head in the sand just because your emotions are in the way.

Boxers are the weakest full contact combat sports athletes when it comes to real fighting. Too limited of an artform. Which is fine, but Boxing deserves this criticsm because they've always tried to claim the "baddest man on the planet" title. Remember that in the previous thread which you ignored buddy?

As for me, any pro boxer with a grappling background would destroy me. And any pro boxer who has trained several months of takedown defense would probably also do the same. But a pure boxer close to my size with zero grappling training? Easy pickings. It's like taking down a caveman with a gun. It's unfair due to the evolution.

[BKM-]

****** confirmed.

how is biting going to stop a low single? unless you trained exact take-down defense. no street move stops a take-down.

who is going to have the advantage even with biting. the guy on top or the guy on the bottom?

the guy on top can throw elbows. headbutts. and literally beat the guy on the bottom to death while pinning him to the ground.

Haha yeah I love the "biting negates takedowns" or similar primitive 2003 arguments.

I just usually refer to the fact that boxers can't even stop clinches from boxing opponents and all they're trying to do is get overhooks.

They can't stop that yet they're supposed to stop low double or singles from expert grapplers who can shoot from any range, angle or height much faster than they can set-up even their fastest punch? Laughable.

Especially Mike Tyson, one of the pound for pound physically weakest boxers of all time. Completely void of any leverage in the clinch, no raw natural physical strength at all, like for example Evander Holyfield who does and completely man-handled bad boy Tyson in the clinch like a father disciplining his toddler.

[kafkod]

The irony of a boxing purist calling others naive about real fighting is priceless.

You guys still have the same argumentation of the 2000s. Unevolved nonsensical theories.

So, tell me exactly which rules have come into play that prevent strikers from beating grapplers(I'll just ignore the reality that it is the opposite but nvm for now, this should be good). You've got the floor.

Read the comment you are replying to here. There are rules in MMA which were introduced specifically to make it easier for grapplers to get take downs without being murdered in the process.

[kafkod]

People that speak like BKM, don't know what violence is or? Have not really experienced violence in their lifetime HitmanTommy.

BKM thinks he CAN also handle most boxers in a street fight 'This is what he genuinely believes'. This is the culture that comes with Mixed Martial Arts 'A culture if wannabe hard men'.

Some people can just fight, I did karate as a kid 'And also attended boxing'. And there are people out there, who can just straight up fight 'None of your fancy mixed martial training, will save you or prepare you for these type of people'.

Mike Tyson was one of those people 'A instinctive fighter'.

I second this. There are some guys you would never want to tangle with on the cobbles. as we say in the UK, and a young Mike Tyson was one of them.

[BKM-]

Read the comment you are replying to here. There are rules in MMA which were introduced specifically to make it easier for grapplers to get take downs without being murdered in the process.

Somebody already responded to that in this thread, so again the old rules helped the grapplers far more than it did the strikers.

Only soccer kicks/knees to downed opponents helped the kickboxers/mau thai strikers, not the boxers since they can't kick. But it works both ways because if the wrestler did get you down, he was free to knee or kick your arse while you were down and completely controlled, making the grappler much more deadly.

Not to mention headbutts and 12:6 elbows which made the grappler even more deadly when he had top control, was also part of the old rules.

So you really got it backwards pal.

[kafkod]

Kicks and knees to the head of a grounded opponent were legal in the UFC in the 90s, and in Pride FC until it folded in 2007, and in a few places even after that. It generally worked more in favor of wrestlers/grapplers than those trying to defend against them. They'd take side control or north south and let the knees rain down. When headbutts were legal they usually made wrestlers more effective too.

Pretty sure downward strikes to the back of the head were legal in the UFC for a while as well. Its generally going to be a serious shot in the dark trying to pull it off. I'm sure a lot of those random 400-0 on the street ninjas that turned up in the early UFCs thought they could stop Royce with that kinda **** too.

Prime Mike Tyson was not some random 400-0 street ninja. One hammer blow to the back of Royce Gracie's head or neck from a prime Mike Tyson would have put him out like a light, possibly permanently.

[boliodogs]

Tyson doesn't wrestle. He punches very fast and hard. If the wrestler can get Tyson down without Tyson landing a punch then he might win. More likely Tyson does land a punch before the wrestler can get him down. One clean bare knuckle tyson bomb and the wrestler is either KOed or badly staggered enough for Tyson to land a second punch which KOs the wrestler. I think Tyson would ko the wrestler in about 2 seconds.

[TMLT87]

Read the comment you are replying to here. There are rules in MMA which were introduced specifically to make it easier for grapplers to get take downs without being murdered in the process.

From wiki...


"UFC 12 saw the introduction of weight classes and the banning of fish-hooking. For UFC 14, gloves became mandatory, while kicks to the head of a downed opponent were banned. UFC 15 saw limitations on hair pulling, and the banning of strikes to the back of the neck and head, headbutting, small-joint manipulations, and groin strikes"

The most successful fighters in the UFC up to that point were Royce, Severn and Coleman - two wrestlers and a BJJ guy....