Prime JAMES TONEY Vs Usyk @ 200lbs

[billeau2]

The Nunn, Barkley and Holyfield wins absolutely defecate and urinate on the whole of Usyk's career.

Usyk has to fight a bit more... there are many fighters who won more than 20 times out who jumped up and were put down hard, while others continued to climb. Time will tell.

[IronDanHamza]

Being dense is not a strategy to win an argument...Sorry Charley. Saying the same BS over and over does not make it stick to the wall the next time...

Grow up. Your haterade for Toney is silly. Holly won his next 3 fights, fact, look it up. You minimize Toney's best wins is also a fact. Jirov was not garbage, he may not have been a great fighter but was decent... And the Nunn fight was a great win whether you see it that way.....Or Not!

Ok address nothing. It's you that made the argument that Bellew hit Usyk therefore that must mean something, not me. I merely countered that by saying Toney got hit more by inferior men.

Actually no he lost his next fight after Toney to Larry Donald Yes Larry Donald. You look it up!!

Never said Nunn wasn't a good win, it certainly was very good to come from behind and get the KO like he did. Just also stating it wasn't anywhere near dominant as he was schooled for the vast majority of it ans Nunn was NOT a great fighter nor close to it.

Jirov beat no ranked fighters. He was nothing as a pro.

[Nay_Sayer]

Usyk has to fight a bit more... there are many fighters who won more than 20 times out who jumped up and were put down hard, while others continued to climb. Time will tell.

We'll see but I'm not high on Usyk's chances at HW against the top guys there. He gets hit too much and, IMO, he doesn't have enough on his punches to keep the HWs honest. The Chisora fight should tell us a lot..

[Nay_Sayer]

Never said Nunn wasn't a good win, it certainly was very good to come from behind and get the KO like he did. Just also stating it wasn't anywhere near dominant as he was schooled for the vast majority of it and Nunn was NOT a great fighter nor close to it.

The win over Nunn trumps anything on Usyk's resume. *Easily*.

[IronDanHamza]

The win over Nunn trumps anything on Usyk's resume. *Easily*.

Of course. There's no doubt about that.

[billeau2]

Ok address nothing. It's you that made the argument that Bellew hit Usyk therefore that must mean something, not me. I merely countered that by saying Toney got hit more by inferior men.

Actually no he lost his next fight after Toney to Larry Donald Yes Larry Donald. You look it up!!

Never said Nunn wasn't a good win, it certainly was very good to come from behind and get the KO like he did. Just also stating it wasn't anywhere near dominant as he was schooled for the vast majority of it ans Nunn was NOT a great fighter nor close to it.

Jirov beat no ranked fighters. He was nothing as a pro.

Again being dense is not a strategy to win an argument. I stated my point on two occasions about the Bellew fight. Its not particularly hard to understand. Holly had a string of wins as after the Donald loss.

Yup Nun was a good win wasn't it? we can agree on that. I would call it great considering how Nunn was fighting back then...but that is just my take. Jirov was what he was... He wasn't horrible, he wasn't a bad fighter either. He was a decent win all things considered.

[billeau2]

We'll see but I'm not high on Usyk's chances at HW against the top guys there. He gets hit too much and, IMO, he doesn't have enough on his punches to keep the HWs honest. The Chisora fight should tell us a lot..

Indeed! I think so as well.

[IronDanHamza]

Again being dense is not a strategy to win an argument. I stated my point on two occasions about the Bellew fight. Its not particularly hard to understand. Holly had a string of wins as after the Donald loss.

Yup Nun was a good win wasn't it? we can agree on that. I would call it great considering how Nunn was fighting back then...but that is just my take. Jirov was what he was... He wasn't horrible, he wasn't a bad fighter either. He was a decent win all things considered.

No you didn't I must have missed it. What is your point in regards to Bellew being able to hit Usyk?

[Real King Kong]

Usyk boxes to a decision. Bad style matchup for toney, not to mention the natural size/reach difference.

[billeau2]

No you didn't I must have missed it. What is your point in regards to Bellew being able to hit Usyk?

Oh I did...

1) you claim that Toney was beaten by a number of fighers who were close to average. You also cap this with the Tiburi fight.

2) The response from me is that Toney is indeed inconsistent and that being beat by status quo type fighters does not exclude him from greatness and that furthermore...

3) Usyk also got in a close fight with Tony Bellew who one would say is on the level of a good status quo type fighter.

4) Now keep in mind that my point here is simply to say that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander: Both men had situations where they showed a propencity to get into a tough fight with an opponent that was not on their perceived level.

5) Your retort is to want a numerical Calculus describing how many times Bellew hit Usyk versus how many times Toney was hit in his questionable fights.

6) At this point I could have engaged you and said "Usyk has not been fighting that long yet, lets see how many times he gets into it when he is around as long as Toney," but I did not because this was not my point really.

7) My retort is that it is ridiculous to try to average numbers of hits in these fights...that proves no point. And I say as much. My point was, that Usyk was vulnerable.

8) If we accept that usyk was vulnerable then it follows that we have to see more of him to put him at Toney's level. How will he do at heavyweight? What will he do down the road, in the middle of his career.

9) You want to judge Toney on his entire career which included a lot of experience and a lot of fights. I think we need to see a lot more of Usyk frankly.