Let's be honest here....Manny took human growth hormone right?...Reasonable debate.

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  • Lester Tutor
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    #181

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    • travestyny
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      #182
      Originally posted by HeroBando
      I'm going by the Usadas rules. All those are explicit prohibited without a prior TUE, together with home visits. You asked for a link, you got it, and now you don't like the rules. Now appealing to examples of recreational use that would get you laughed out of the room under true Wada supervised OST
      Get me laughed at??? YOU SAID IT!!! I'm laughing at you for saying that 50ml is so significant that anything over it would mean you have to visit a hospital. You have to admit, that's pretty dumb.

      USADA is a signatory of the WADA protocol, in case you didn't realize. There is no "I'm gonna go by USADA's rules." The rules are made by WADA, which clearly states that a retroactive TUE would be allowed. Go look at the ISTUE for more details.

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      • Divine Hammer
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        #183
        Originally posted by travestyny
        Then why didn't you mention it, smart guy? I asked you outright, and you didn't say ****. Funny how you are now mentioning this stuff after I linked you to the right spots.

        Calling bull**** on you, numbskull.
        like i said i knew getting hyponatremia from dehydration is rare which is why i focused on the excess water part of it.

        me mentioning how implausible it is for floyd (a pro athlete for many many years) to improperly rehydrate and get hyponatremia from excess water.
        floyd's entire career easily rehydrating via fluids. but all of a sudden gets hyponatremia soon after weigh-in????
        etc. etc.

        i dont need to google research this. it's all common sense. like floyd using iv therapy to mask illegal substances like lance did is COMMON SENSE. u dunce.

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        • hectari
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          #184
          Growth Hormone is probably the weakest performance enhancer, its more used for anti aging and healing.

          It also has negative effects such as bone growth, organ growth, and enlarging is very bad for your organs.

          Floyd, Manny, Wlad, Hopkins can use it all they want and it wouldn't bother me one bit, it aint going to make them faster, stronger or punch harder like Testosterone will.

          I think all athletes should be given safe doctor prescribed meds that help them recover to avoid injury but won't give them significant athletic advantage, a lot of fighters get injured and it puts them out for months.

          You know what drugs that are not steroids that are actually one of the more underrated performance enhancers? Smart drugs, like adderall, a lot of football players were caught with it, it makes your reaction time insane if you are a responder, and puts you in the ZONE, and Shane Mosley son used it, its one of the sneaky drugs that helps your hand eye coordination, speed reaction timing, etc.

          This is what some people suspect Floyd Mayweather takes is Adderall, as you get older your reaction time will slow, all the great slicksters slowed down in terms of reaction time, Floyd is a gym rat, he jogs daily is lean and in shape, but in some fights he looks garbage and gets hit a lot, but in other fighters he is so sharp even flinching at any little flicker or body move its fishy, his alertness becomes unreal at his age, I think Floyd could be the one on something, because he threw the accusation to deflect any attention from him, same thing with the lifts in the shoes, he wore lifts at the pacquiao presser yet accused Manny of wearing lifts, smh this dude is a classic case of deflection and projecting what he does onto others so people will not think he is doing something. A lot of ped cheats in UFC were deflectors and got caught like anderson Silva and Jon Jones, who like Floyd had weirdly low test levels on their USADA tests.



          Adderall

          “It increases alertness, aggressiveness, attention and concentration. It improves reaction time, especially when fatigued. Some think it enhances hand-eye coordination. Some believe it increases the mental aspects of performance.”

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          • travestyny
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            #185
            Originally posted by Divine Hammer
            like i said i knew getting hyponatremia from dehydration is rare which is why i focused on the excess water part of it.

            me mentioning how implausible it is for floyd (a pro athlete for many many years) to improperly rehydrate and get hyponatremia from excess water.


            etc. etc.

            i dont need to google research this. it's all common sense. like floyd using iv therapy to mask illegal substances like lance did is COMMON SENSE. u dunce.
            If it's common sense, why can't you prove it?

            If I'm the dunce, why have I shut you down and left you with speculation that he used an IV 22 times?

            Keep trying, but you're not fooling anyone.

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            • HeroBando
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              #186
              Originally posted by travestyny
              Get me laughed at??? YOU SAID IT!!! I'm laughing at you for saying that 50ml is so significant that anything over it would mean you have to visit a hospital. You have to admit, that's pretty dumb.

              USADA is a signatory of the WADA protocol, in case you didn't realize. There is no "I'm gonna go by USADA's rules." The rules are made by WADA, which clearly states that a retroactive TUE would be allowed. Go look at the ISTUE for more details.
              I'm saying if you were caught with 750ml under genuine OST in those circumstances, you'd be laughed at if you try the challenge the CLEARCUT rules with examples of recreational use.

              I don't need to look at the rules again. I linked them, and they're unambiguous. You were left arguing how they're unreasonable

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              • travestyny
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                #187
                Originally posted by HeroBando
                I'm saying if you were caught with 750ml under genuine OST in those circumstances, you'd be laughed at if you try the challenge the CLEARCUT rules with examples of recreational use.

                I don't need to look at the rules again. I linked them, and they're unambiguous. You were left arguing how they're unreasonable
                First of all, there was no "caught." That was already established. Second, once again, it was your contention that anything about 50ml would require hospitalization. All I did was prove you wrong.


                I don't think they are unreasonable. I think you don't understand them. That much is clear not only because of what I mentioned, but because of what happened. It is also clear because the ISTUE, which is the SOLE controlling document here, clearly states the rules for when a retroactive TUE can be applied for. All of the other medical papers are not binding, and are only used to guide the TUEC. WADA states this clearly, or do you need links for this, too?

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                • Divine Hammer
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                  #188
                  Originally posted by travestyny
                  If it's common sense, why can't you prove it?

                  If I'm the dunce, why have I shut you down and left you with speculation that he used an IV 22 times?

                  Keep trying, but you're not fooling anyone.
                  it's more proof than what u have against manny being a ped user???? is it not???

                  and it's absolutely common sense. a pro athlete using iv saline therapy for anything other than rehydration??? that's very very very su****ions considering lance used this same method to cheat his tests. floyd is most likely a cheat. u will have to live with that.

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                  • HeroBando
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                    #189
                    Originally posted by travestyny
                    First of all, there was no "caught." That was already established. Second, once again, it was your contention that anything about 50ml would require hospitalization. All I did was prove you wrong.


                    I don't think they are unreasonable. I think you don't understand them. That much is clear not only because of what I mentioned, but because of what happened. It is also clear because the ISTUE, which is the SOLE controlling document here, clearly states the rules for when a retroactive TUE can be applied for. All of the other medical papers are not binding, and are only used to guide the TUEC. WADA states this clearly, or do you need links for this, too?
                    You're boring me now

                    http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uplo...-Infusions.pdf

                    All IV infusions and/or injections of more than 50mL (~3.4 tablespoons) per 6 hour period are prohibited at all times, both in- and out-of-competition, except for those legitimately received in the course of hospital admissions, surgical procedures or clinical investigations, without an approved The****utic Use Exemption (TUE).
                    IV infusions during home visits, urgent care or after-hours clinics, boutique IV and rehydration services, and doctor’s office visits are not hospital admissions and would require an approved TUE in advance

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                    • travestyny
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                      #190
                      Originally posted by HeroBando
                      Dude, because of how it went down, don't you agree that you must not be understanding something properly????

                      I mean seriously. USADA, whose paper you are mentioning, even wrote a long as document defending what they did. Could it be that...YOU ARE WRONG? Who would know better? It's kind of ****** for you to argue that they are in the wrong using their own rules.

                      Did it ever occur to you that what they mean by approval is what Floyd did by seeking their approval before having the IV. However, it needed to be formally granted retroactively???

                      This is not rocket science.

                      In a letter from USADA to the Nevada State Athletic Commission (NSAC) on May 21, 2015, the NSAC was informed of Mr. Mayweather’s approved The****utic Use Exemption (TUE) and advised that “Mr. Mayweather declared the infusion in advance to a USADA doping control officer who was at his home for collection of a sample. Mr. Mayweather provided partial urine samples to USADA both prior to and following the infusion. The urine provided by Mr. Mayweather on May 1, 2015, was subsequently tested and has been reported by the World Anti-Doping Agency accredited laboratory as negative.”
                      http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uplo...Tom-Hauser.pdf

                      This ends your speculation. Says it right there. Hope you had a good time playing

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