Let's be honest here....Manny took human growth hormone right?...Reasonable debate.

[HeroBando]

So now WADA is part of damage control?

WADA is the sole controller. If you can't see that...well, not sure what else to tell you.

You still haven't answered why Floyd would have to use an IV or why he would have to apply for a TUE if he paid off USADA so that he can take PED's. How does that make sense logically?

No Wada is not, they didn't involve themselves in this matter nor any other in pro boxing. This PR statement was from Usada only, the guys on Floyds payroll

I told you, he could have been nervous about passing the commission post fight test. Or was just caught in the act, who knows? With advance notice the testers would have ordered him to get his IV in the hospital, per the rules. Either way it stinks. Maybe from all the sweat you've put into making it go away

[travestyny]

No Wada is not, they didn't involve themselves in this matter nor any other in pro boxing. This PR statement was from Usada only, the guys on Floyds payroll

I told you, he could have been nervous about passing the commission post fight test. Or was just caught in the act, who knows? With advance notice the testers would have ordered him to get his IV in the hospital, per the rules. Either way it stinks. Maybe from all the sweat you've put into making it go away

Making it go away? lol. If only I put in as much effort as you who can't even agree that USADA is a signatory to the WADA protocol, and thus WADA is significant. I don't know how you can deny this over and over. Even USADA mentions it to you, but somehow you pretend that's not looking you in the face.

Your "answer" does not mention why there had to be a TUE if USADA was paid off. The TUE would not allow someone to test positive for a banned substance, so...not surprisingly, your answer makes no sense at all.

[HeroBando]

Making it go away? lol. If only I put in as much effort as you who can't even agree that USADA is a signatory to the WADA protocol, and thus WADA is significant. I don't know how you can deny this over and over. Even USADA mentions it to you, but somehow you pretend that's not looking you in the face.

Your "answer" does not mention why there had to be a TUE if USADA was paid off. The TUE would not allow someone to test positive for a banned substance, so...not surprisingly, your answer makes no sense at all.

Ok man, you saw the rule, you know it was breached. You don't want it to be true, sorry. You trying to convince yourself or anyone that'll bite?

I keep saying, Usada wasn't paid off. They didn't need to be, they were contracted by Floyd repeatedly and the terms are not public. They're not doing anything illegal. Unethical sure, but that's boxing for you. And Floyd, a known massive hypocrite, who's surprised?.

[travestyny]

Ok man, you saw the rule, you know it was breached. You don't want it to be true, sorry. You trying to convince yourself or anyone that'll bite?

I keep saying, Usada wasn't paid off. They didn't need to be, they were contracted by Floyd repeatedly and the terms are not public. They're not doing anything illegal. Unethical sure, but that's boxing for you. And Floyd, a known massive hypocrite, who's surprised?.

1. I told you that you don't understand the rule. USADA confirmed that you don't understand the rule. Has it ever occurred to you that you could be wrong? Of course not.

2. So now they weren't paid off? They were just unethically biased toward Mayweather...because he gave them money. lol. And so....paid off to be unethical and biased toward him, or no? If you say they did nothing illegal, what's your beef? What exactly are you accusing them of doing? Your statements are becoming more odd and vague. Maybe it's sleep time?

[HeroBando]

1. I told you that you don't understand the rule. USADA confirmed that you don't understand the rule. Has it ever occurred to you that you could be wrong? Of course not.

2. So now they weren't paid off? They were just unethically biased toward Mayweather...because he gave them money. lol. And so....paid off to be unethical and biased toward him, or no? If you say they did nothing illegal, what's your beef? What exactly are you accusing them of doing? Your statements are becoming more odd and vague. Maybe it's sleep time?

1. Home visit IVs over 50ml require advance TU exceptions. Rule broken. What am I misunderstanding?

2. Obviously I'm accusing them of not following their rules, just as you'd expect when theyre contracted by the guy they're testing. Built in conflict of interest, predictable outcome.

Good stuff man. You've worked very hard, made some decent efforts but the facts were against you. Thanks for staying civil through this hardship.

[travestyny]

1. Home visit IVs over 50ml require advance TU exceptions. Rule broken. What am I misunderstanding?

2. Obviously I'm accusing them of not following their rules, just as you'd expect when theyre contracted by the guy they're testing. Built in conflict of interest, predictable outcome.

Good stuff man. You've worked very hard, made some decent efforts but the facts were against you. Thanks for staying civil through this hardship.

Sorry, but the facts are against you.

Mayweather notified USADA IN ADVANCE, they remained with him throughout the whole ordeal to make sure everything was on the up and up for the TUE to be accepted, and the TUE was granted retroactively in accordance with the WADA protocol. If you can't understand that, just as USADA mentioned it to you, I don't know what else can be said about it.

USADA never broke the WADA protocol, which IS their rules. That's all there is to it. Now, if you think they did, I still don't see how you go from that to the abuse of PED's. But, have at it.

Likewise, thanks for remaining civil. Respect.

[Ham Porter]

Roid PEDweather bumsniffs thinking they have any room to pass judgement on other dopers.

[Rath]

Just another pathetic attempt to smear pacquiao lol. Can't blame them though most western men are physically weak and feminine.

ever wonder why even after passing the "gold standard of drug testing" USADA, Pac still a ped cheat?

genius floyd fan - he want cut off doe = ped cheater

he rejected USADA testing doe = ped cheater.

Floyd SR. and JR. apologizes publicly for their mistake in accusing Pac = ped cheater

pac took USADA test with no cut off date and pass without IV scandal = ped cheater

genius floyd fans logic.

[Dosumpthin]

it's not just the controversial iv for floyd, it's also the abnormally low testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratios, the fact he is very close friends with someone who owns TRT clinics, he has had 3 dirty tests swept under the rug, vampire facial, his TMT fighters (who he works closely with) testing dirty, etc. etc.

it's all there. anyways im getting sleepy. goodnight.

If "vampire facials" is a form of cheating, then why is ok for pacquiao to use a controversial procedure like PRP treatments?







Looks like we have another another "School of Thomas Hauser University" graduate who obtained 4 degrees all online from viewing the article (not reading and comprhending) "can boxing trust USADA?".


Pact@rds are clueless.

[soul_survivor]

I know lots of people are going to sigh, but now the dust has settled I am wondering what the general consensus is now that agenda's have been put to one side. I have been reading a book on Lance Armstrong recently, which I have yet to finish, but let's just say it goes into lots of detail and ventures into the dirtiest, darkest places about cheating in sports.

I think the changes in Manny's facial structure are very much along the lines of what is describing the side effects of using HGH, and various forms of steroids (forget all the names). It was all very su****ious wasn't it? I use to try and justify it and say to myself that him knocking down and hurting these guys was because he was able to hit them cleaner than he was smaller sharper fighters like Barrera, Morales, and Marquez. But looking back I think those perceptions were naive. I have heard all the arguments before about him being the same size in the ring as he was at 135, etc. But he was punching holes through these guys at the higher weights.

There have been times when large fighters with serious punching power were not able to knock down Shane Mosley, but Pacquiao did, and seemed to shake him a few times after that as well. It just doesn't add up, and even giving him the benefit of the doubt on the power front, the way he was teeing off on Clottey for 12 rounds was inhuman. It wasn't like he was throwing lots of flowing punches, or throwing arm punches like a Margarito, or Leo Santa Cruz, he was winding up and zinging drilled power punches with nearly everything on them for a full 12 rounds. 1200 punches!!! I do think if he did use PEDs, he did taper off them at some point, but the effects of HGH are lasting and permanent.

I would just like to say before people think this is a hate thread, Manny's boxing technique and the improvements made over time have to be respected and quite frankly the skills and ability are underrated by a lot of people. The guy could really box and was smart in the ring. He could set traps, counter, apart from in-fighting he could pretty much do it all. He is also a person very likeable. I am not sure how I would feel if it was ever proven that he used PED's. I just want to get peoples opinions and why you feel that way.

How can you have a reasonable debate when your title assumes the worst?

this is just a bait thread which will get 110 pages.