Let's be honest here....Manny took human growth hormone right?...Reasonable debate.

[Elotero]

How many mexican's have been successful in the olympics or amateur, can you even get reliable data? The Philippines breed pro's like a lot of countries.

You are bringing two different arguments to the table as well, so peaking late in his career, that is different, and I am more inclined to agree there, but that doesn't fit the other argument that you are trying to put forward here, in fact it contradicts it slightly, because he would be more likely to peak later if he didn't have a proper amateur pedigree and a proper trainer from early in his career.

Despite proper belief, he was also actually flyweight world champion at the age of 19 so the talent was definitely there from the beginning. It is not far fetched to believe proper training/trainer would take him much further being a bit of a rough diamond.

The one thing we do agree on is his career from 2008 is more than su****ious.

Mexicans have plenty of prospects, champions and olympians. No one is talking about Mexico here, so im not sure why you bring up a successful boxing country amidst this discussion. Apples - Oranges. Phillipines rarely produce quality - with or without proper training.

Do be so gullible my friend. Wake up! Slap yourself if you need to. You are living in the steroid age. These things just dont magically happen to people.

A fighter from Malta or Hungary (not know for dominating boxing much like PI) climbing to the top would be su****ious as ****. Im beginning to believe you may share nationalities because its clear as day to me.

[Lester Tutor]

what is it with you guys bringing up floyd

these guys are not joined at the hip.

Mayweather was in the public eye and a big name fighter before anyone could pronounce Manny's last name

stay on topic

regardless of the method, why avoid testing if you are not trying to cycle it out? If you're not cheating take the test.....period

[Slyboots]

I picked "Pacquaio started around 2008 then tapered off in 2011/12".

I didn't want to believe it at first because I'm a Pac fan, but looking at it objectively, I believe he was juicing at least around this time period.

Does it mean he wasn't a great fighter? No.
Does it tarnish his reputation? If he was indeed juicing, then absolutely.

But then again, every top athlete in every sport is on something. I think if we were to let athletes use PEDs in sporting competitions, it would make them much more exciting. I think Pac is a perfect example of that.

[Swatty]

There is no evidence at all that he was juicing, no signs of it in his fighting. Did he have unexplained back problems? No. Did he become suddenly and strangely belligerent? No. He didn't gain a huge amount of weight or muscle in an extraordinarily short amount of time... didn't get huge in size... There is just nothing there. I always thought it funny that the Mayweathers brought up his big head... because that was so ****** it was funny. Now the sudden Floyd combativeness with media, his crudeness and bully like attitude, maybe even the woman beating... and his sudden su****ion that Manny was cheating... That would have happened when Floyd started cheating and thought everyone else must have been doing it. Whereupon he started fighting only in his hometown, in a state where he has great influence and the money to use it. Manny fought as a stranger in a strange land, still does... he doesn't influence boxing commissions and get away with using illegal IVs because of that...

[Lester Tutor]

There is no evidence at all that he was juicing, no signs of it in his fighting. Did he have unexplained back problems? No. Did he become suddenly and strangely belligerent? No. He didn't gain a huge amount of weight or muscle in an extraordinarily short amount of time... didn't get huge in size... There is just nothing there. I always thought it funny that the Mayweathers brought up his big head... because that was so ****** it was funny. Now the sudden Floyd combativeness with media, his crudeness and bully like attitude, maybe even the woman beating... and his sudden su****ion that Manny was cheating... That would have happened when Floyd started cheating and thought everyone else must have been doing it. Whereupon he started fighting only in his hometown, in a state where he has great influence and the money to use it. Manny fought as a stranger in a strange land, still does... he doesn't influence boxing commissions and get away with using illegal IVs because of that...

do you know who Victor Conte is?

[Combat Talk Radio]

in a fitted hat! mosley cant knock cotto down but he can? come on man!

You forgot "STOP!"

[LoadedWraps]

[IMG]http://i285.***********.com/albums/ll61/ShadowBoxing89/mannynewlogo-2.gif[/IMG]

[SterlingStained]

yeah manny is the only person that is not suppose to get old, age, show signs of wear, slow down, etc. if and when this does happens, then its a sign of him abusing steroids.....

he started boxing as a 16 year old but somehow if he grows into a man he's using peds.

He's overrated, he beats fighters coming off losses, he's one dimensional.....

but he using peds doe....




im not worried about it. neither should pacfans. because if you think pacquiao cheated then so did floyd because you know...








Keep at it FL*M*S.

The two are linked together.

[Lester Tutor]

he started boxing as a 16 year old but somehow if he grows into a man he's using peds.

He's overrated, he beats fighters coming off losses, he's one dimensional.....

but he using peds doe....




im not worried about it. neither should pacfans. because if you think pacquiao cheated then so did floyd because you know...








Keep at it FL*M*S.

The two are linked together.

Pac started at 13, and even his mom said he liked boxing as a kid. He went "pro" at age of 15. His first fights even looked like he trained at boxing.

Pac fans have been defeated in the last year by justifying that if Pac and Floyd used Ariza, as if they both had each other in the same amount time, then both should be "forgiven."

[Hype job]

Manny went from looking like your typical Filipino to looking like a full blown caveman all at 30 years old. 30 years old and his head, feet and hands are still growing.





[IMG]http://i255.***********.com/albums/hh126/Filet-O-Fisk/Peyton%20head%20copy.jpg[/IMG]

Pac at 16 had a big head and hands, that's just the way he is, was he taking HGH at 16 then?

I think he probably took EPO but all the HGH and head growth talk is silly.