How viable is the PBC model?

[killakali]

Why would HBO pay for Joe Smith Jr but not a fighter on their network, Sharbanskky? You know who else are Star Boxers but not signed with Haymon? Andrade and Algieri. Where have they been fighting? PBC and Showtime.

What is Ward's second HBO fight? And the PPV fight doesn't come out the budget. They make money on PPV's.

Wards 2nd fight is Erik Skoglund (25-0 11 KOs) on August 6th.

The minimums in Ward's contract were negotiated between himself and RNS. That was signed way before he signed his HBO three fight deal. HBO has nothing to do with his contract with RNS. His fight vs Paul Smith was his first with RNS and was before his HBO contract.

Just like Tim Bradley agreed to take 1.6 mil to fight Jessie Vargas when his minimum is 2mil with Top Rank. Jessie made about 650k but that isn't Tim taking money out of his purse to pay Jessie. HBO pays what they feel is market value for a fight and then the promoter can agree or not. They still have foreign tv revenue, sponsors and gates they can make money on.

[Motorcity Cobra]

Wards 2nd fight is Erik Skoglund (25-0 11 KOs) on August 6th.

The minimums in Ward's contract were negotiated between himself and RNS. That was signed way before he signed his HBO three fight deal. HBO has nothing to do with his contract with RNS. His fight vs Paul Smith was his first with RNS and was before his HBO contract.

Just like Tim Bradley agreed to take 1.6 mil to fight Jessie Vargas when his minimum is 2mil with Top Rank. Jessie made about 650k but that isn't Tim taking money out of his purse to pay Jessie. HBO pays what they feel is market value for a fight and then the promoter can agree or not. They still have foreign tv revenue, sponsors and gates they can make money on.

I know what his minimums are. Remember I'm the one who explained to you where the money from the Barrera fight came from because it didn't come form HBO.

I haven't heard the Erik Skoglund fight being announced but I hope it's true and I hope they broadcast it. I'm buying the Ward-Kovalev PPV as well as the Crawford-Postol PPV. I'm not an HBO hater but I'm far more critical of them than I am of PBC because I spend a lot of money a year on my subscription and PPV's. I'm always gonna complain when I'm spending my money on a product and I don't feel it's worth it. My subscription is up at the end of this month. I'll buy the PPV's and if they have a month where they have at least two fights that are worth watching I'll subscribe again.

You know, when you think about it it's kinda ****ty. They're saying 'Here you go. We know Kovalev's and Ward's fights aren't going to be competitive and they should be fighting better competition but we can't risk them losing because we want you to but a PPV fight involving them later this year"

[Scipio2009]

Showtime doesn't have unlimited funds either and with PBC already losing dates I don't see Al wanting to see Espinoza lose 5-6 mil in purses for 2 Andre Ward fights a year (his purse plus opponent) and possible dates for any other opponent.

The Banner deal was different. While Provo was an animal, he was beatable and his guys like Broner, Garcia etc would have been favored to beat him where as Ward would be favored to beat all his 68's and 75's like Quillin, the Dirells, Beterbiev, Adonis etc.

Plus remember HBO will have right of first refusal to match any deal and we don't know what the deal encompasses for the winner of the Kovalev Ward fight. They may already be locked in passed this date.

Showtime doesn't have unlimited funds, but they've shown that they're willing to invest the money when they deem it worthy (Anthony Joshua being the most recent example), and lay out funds that HBO is seemingly unwilling to match.

Beyond that, Andre Ward having three belts, and likely having the Stevenson unification fight on PPV, will likely be positioned as a PPV fighter for most of the deal anyway (with near all of the viable opponents at 175 coming from fighters tied with or affiliated to Haymon).

I have no doubt that Main Events has some kind of rematch clause in the contract; I'm just fairly certain that Roc Nation didn't have the business arrangements locked in against their fighter for the rematch before the first bout even happened. If Ward wins the fight, Roc Nation is the lead promoter for the rematch, and RocNation gets all of the privileges that come with that (choosing the venue, picking the event sponsors, negotiating out the various international TV deals to their liking, staging the event like a Roc Nation presentation, and choosing who carries the US TV).

[killakali]

I know what his minimums are. Remember I'm the one who explained to you where the money from the Barrera fight came from because it didn't come form HBO.

I haven't heard the Erik Skoglund fight being announced but I hope it's true and I hope they broadcast it. I'm buying the Ward-Kovalev PPV as well as the Crawford-Postol PPV. I'm not an HBO hater but I'm far more critical of them than I am of PBC because I spend a lot of money a year on my subscription and PPV's. I'm always gonna complain when I'm spending my money on a product and I don't feel it's worth it. My subscription is up at the end of this month. I'll buy the PPV's and if they have a month where they have at least two fights that are worth watching I'll subscribe again.

You know, when you think about it it's kinda ****ty. They're saying 'Here you go. We know Kovalev's and Ward's fights aren't going to be competitive and they should be fighting better competition but we can't risk them losing because we want you to but a PPV fight involving them later this year"

kind of like Adonis Stevenson fighting guys like Karpency right? No risk fights like that or Maderna who Beterbiev just blew out. At least the HBO model has a goal in sight like the kovalev ward ppv. The two light heavyweight fights mentioned above have no goal in sight. Just pointless fights.

And no you didn't explain to me that Barrera's money didn't come from HBO. You said Ward got 1.85mil. He took less to make the fight. He didn't pay for it. Barrera/Main Events got 600k. Ward didn't pay no 600k for that fight. He just took less than his RNS minimum. HBO doesn't give a shiet about his RNS contract. Just like Showtime don't care about a Haymon minimum contract. Like Espinoza said, we buy the fight. We dont pay the fighter purses. There is lots of other revenues which I explained to you like foreign tv, tecate, corona, gates etc

[killakali]

Showtime doesn't have unlimited funds, but they've shown that they're willing to invest the money when they deem it worthy (Anthony Joshua being the most recent example), and lay out funds that HBO is seemingly unwilling to match.

Beyond that, Andre Ward having three belts, and likely having the Stevenson unification fight on PPV, will likely be positioned as a PPV fighter for most of the deal anyway (with near all of the viable opponents at 175 coming from fighters tied with or affiliated to Haymon).

I have no doubt that Main Events has some kind of rematch clause in the contract; I'm just fairly certain that Roc Nation didn't have the business arrangements locked in against their fighter for the rematch before the first bout even happened. If Ward wins the fight, Roc Nation is the lead promoter for the rematch, and RocNation gets all of the privileges that come with that (choosing the venue, picking the event sponsors, negotiating out the various international TV deals to their liking, staging the event like a Roc Nation presentation, and choosing who carries the US TV).

nah Stevenson has one cash out fight then hes about done. Haymon just doesn't have the 175 lbers. No one cares about Alvarez. Fonfara just got blown out. Smith isn't with PBC and can go fight on HBO right now. Show has Beterbiev who isn't big yet but on his way and Degale if he beats Jack and then moves up. That is about it. HBO has the kovalev rematch, Pascal can still fight ward after a tune up, the olympic gold and bronze medalists egor mehmetovev and alex gvodzyk with top rank, shabranskky who is on par with beterbiev, yuniesky gonzalez, barrera etc.

HBO won't let Ward slip away win or lose vs kovey. the rematch doesn't have to be immediate

[brettWall]

People have a hard time remembering these PBC fighters. They're introduced once, they win, then they're forgotten and become irrelevant again because they're not paired with top fighters in their next fights. Unlike in MMA, fighters win and it will lead to bigger fights.

[Motorcity Cobra]

And no you didn't explain to me that Barrera's money didn't come from HBO. You said Ward got 1.85mil. He took less to make the fight. He didn't pay for it. Barrera/Main Events got 600k. Ward didn't pay no 600k for that fight. He just took less than his RNS minimum. HBO doesn't give a shiet about his RNS contract. Just like Showtime don't care about a Haymon minimum contract. Like Espinoza said, we buy the fight. We dont pay the fighter purses. There is lots of other revenues which I explained to you like foreign tv, tecate, corona, gates etc

You have no idea what you're talking about as usual

$350,000 for Barrerra $2 mil for Ward was the offer rejected.

@sullivanbarrera Only time I'm gonna respond to you buddy. You can call us JC Penny, we ain't got no money for you. Not getting rich off us😂

— Andre S.O.G. Ward (@andreward) January 9, 2016

Then....

#WardBarrera purses from commission: Ward $1.85 million. Barrera $450,000. Diaz $50K. Velez $30K. #boxing

— Mike Coppinger (@MikeCoppinger) March 25, 2016

[Lester Tutor]

You honestly have almost 4,000 posts on a boxing forum and are trying to argue that the PBC sets the rules and not the commission? Or that the PBC can influence boxing rules?



I thought I seen it all on NSB

what rules are you talking about? Only newbie casuals think refs all think a-like... As if boxing refs have never been criticized... is this amateur hour?

"rules" "PBC" "commission" what are these kids talking about. rocket science convo

[Lester Tutor]

did you not watch Fonfara vs Cleverly last year at the same arena with the same commission put on by the same PBC LMAO. That was a great barnburner and Cleverly's face looked as bad as Ruslan Provodnikov in any of his fights? Did PBC forget to tell the commission to watch the safety of the fighters in that fight?? lmaooooooooooooo!

the context is NBC! "LMAOOOO" as if Spike TV and NBC National Live Primetime broadcast are even the same. "bwahahahaha"

kids these days.

[Scipio2009]

Yep. Seeing a couple guys suggesting Ward is destined to be with Haymon/PBC in 2017. I don't see it. The HBO first refusal is the first problem that will be highly underrated if Ward beats Kov. #2 is I'm still of the opinion that RNS and Haymon won't work together til they actually do work together.

HBO has shown themselves more than willing to pass on first refusal rights, and Showtime has shown themselves more than willing to lay out the money for fights that they want (or fights to lock down potential fights in the future).

I think that the "beef" between Haymon and Roc Nation has been drastically exaggerated, but there's too much potential money to be made between the two that business conversations don't take place (Ward vs Adonis Stevenson/Artur Beterbiev/Andre Dirrell/Joe Smith Jr/Marcus Browne, with Showtime backing Ward and Roc Nation for other shows [and helping RNS' own young prospects get a look])