Official Tyson Fury vs Wladimir Klitschko Post Fight Discussion Thread

[billeau2]

Thanks man.

I'm still here I just tire of this new direction the thread has taken ie ripping down the career of Wlad, undermining the victory of Fury so, to think some of the genuine Fury fans are actually going along with this notion is ludicrous.

I could sit here and underplay his victory claiming Father Time caught up with Wlad and a younger version would have trounced Fury but it undermines a Wladimir victory in a rematch. How does Fury then appear as a win for Klitschko should he overcome him in a rematch. If folk want to call that my agenda fine, I'm not gonna lie. But some of the dudes on here claiming they have no agenda when it is clear they aren't even Fury fans I find laughable.

I heard some of the posters in here claiming Wlad looked poor against Jennings last out and that he was in decline and also now it is a great victory for Fury... You guys really need to make your mind, is or was Wlad shot or not ?

I was actually looking forward to the debate after the Fury fight but the way it has shaped up I genuinely dislike coming in here for the narrow minded simplistic views of a few who now have a foothold in this thread.

Haters gonna hate.




Who do you think wins between Wilder and Fury should they fight next ?

Fury. Wider is very limited imo. I tend to believe that a professional prize fighter, if knowing, a guy has a great right, and little else, will find a way to avoid this punch.

[billeau2]

He breaks down and challenges everything you post, your response is generally personal attacks, then you try to claim you're not offended when clearly your behaviour suggests otherwise.

I guess we have a different idea about "breaking down" an idea. What offends me is when people just use jargon and do not use logic, or evidence to defend their point of view. I come from the academy where if you try this you will get spanked.

Look. Jugernaught has many of the same ideas that Elroy does yes? He does not offend me, he used to get into it with me, and then one day he showed a capacity to reference his ideas with proof. We may disagree on things but never the less, I know what reasons he has to make the conclusions he does...again we may disagree, that does not offend me. And as I have said, one would be suprised that we agree on many things.

heres the difference in a nutshell: elroid says "modern fitness is better and everyone should know this otherwise one is a nutbag", or whatever. Thats the extent of his logic. Juggy, on the other hand makes points about weight lifting and in many ways this is correct. A trainer today compared to when I was a fitness trainer in the 1980's has much more knowledge and understanding.

My point here is that the difference is I can dialogue with this and its not black and white. There are some specific things that a fighter can do understanding strength training that may be more efficient and other things guys did back then that were very good...we don't have to take absolute sides. Elroid is a troll because he sets up this issue like it is black and white and has no useful insights.

So thats my logic...find me a post where Elroid does anything but antagonize with vague generalities regarding ideas that would take a lot of proof to show as true (extraordinaty ideas require extraordinary truth) and I would be very suprised.

[Jewish-Reptile]

I guess we have a different idea about "breaking down" an idea. What offends me is when people just use jargon and do not use logic, or evidence to defend their point of view. I come from the academy where if you try this you will get spanked.

Look. Jugernaught has many of the same ideas that Elroy does yes? He does not offend me, he used to get into it with me, and then one day he showed a capacity to reference his ideas with proof. We may disagree on things but never the less, I know what reasons he has to make the conclusions he does...again we may disagree, that does not offend me. And as I have said, one would be suprised that we agree on many things.

heres the difference in a nutshell: elroid says "modern fitness is better and everyone should know this otherwise one is a nutbag", or whatever. Thats the extent of his logic. Juggy, on the other hand makes points about weight lifting and in many ways this is correct. A trainer today compared to when I was a fitness trainer in the 1980's has much more knowledge and understanding.

My point here is that the difference is I can dialogue with this and its not black and white. There are some specific things that a fighter can do understanding strength training that may be more efficient and other things guys did back then that were very good...we don't have to take absolute sides. Elroid is a troll because he sets up this issue like it is black and white and has no useful insights.

So thats my logic...find me a post where Elroid does anything but antagonize with vague generalities regarding ideas that would take a lot of proof to show as true (extraordinaty ideas require extraordinary truth) and I would be very suprised.

Here you are trying to tell me you're in your late 40's to early 50's at the least and you were a fitness in the 80's would that not require some form of basic skills in dealing socially with other people day to day ? You demonstrate none of this, therefore I refuse whole heatedly to accept what you are telling me is true.

You're now attempting to move the debate away from actual boxing itself and present us with this 'analytical' stance Elroy or Roid or whatever is it you choose to call him other than his username, when clearly he can analyse what he has seen in the boxing fights of the career of said boxer we're breaking down.

This to me indicates you're attempting to take the debate to a personal one between yourself and Elroy and move away from the subject matter, all you're doing here is claiming Elroy can not discuss in a debate rationally when in truth all he is doing is disagreeing with you, that is not even my opinion that is fact.

I disagree with Elroy myself, I don't subscribe to the notion Wlad is over the hill thus undermining the victory of Fury or a rematch win for Klitschko, ok many here claiming the Fury win was a great one were claiming Jennings made Klitschko look poor last out and he is in fact in decline,maybe this is true and I myself am overlooking this, with the Fury loss now dealt the tell tale signs may very well have been or actually be there. Again I neither agree nor disagree at this point as I would like to see what Klitschko has to offer in a rematch before making any snap judgement I do not whole heartedly agree with.

You're antagonised by Elroy because he is literally only one of a very select few who are Klitschko supporters now carrying this thread, because you disagree with his beliefs, these beliefs are his opinions whether you choose to accept them or not you can not simply claim them not to be true when he is backing them up with substantial proof to the contrary of your beliefs.

[Jewish-Reptile]

I guess we have a different idea about "breaking down" an idea. What offends me is when people just use jargon and do not use logic, or evidence to defend their point of view. I come from the academy where if you try this you will get spanked.

Look. Jugernaught has many of the same ideas that Elroy does yes? He does not offend me, he used to get into it with me, and then one day he showed a capacity to reference his ideas with proof. We may disagree on things but never the less, I know what reasons he has to make the conclusions he does...again we may disagree, that does not offend me. And as I have said, one would be suprised that we agree on many things.

heres the difference in a nutshell: elroid says "modern fitness is better and everyone should know this otherwise one is a nutbag", or whatever. Thats the extent of his logic. Juggy, on the other hand makes points about weight lifting and in many ways this is correct. A trainer today compared to when I was a fitness trainer in the 1980's has much more knowledge and understanding.

My point here is that the difference is I can dialogue with this and its not black and white. There are some specific things that a fighter can do understanding strength training that may be more efficient and other things guys did back then that were very good...we don't have to take absolute sides. Elroid is a troll because he sets up this issue like it is black and white and has no useful insights.

So thats my logic...find me a post where Elroid does anything but antagonize with vague generalities regarding ideas that would take a lot of proof to show as true (extraordinaty ideas require extraordinary truth) and I would be very suprised.

The academy where you were spanked is of no interest of significance to myself whatsoever, your private life and sexual encounters have no place in this thread.

[bitterdickbilly]

People ought to to learn to be fans of the sport of boxing, instead of being nut huggers.

I love all boxers, except the douche bag ones.

[bitterdickbilly]

Elroid is let off the hook constantly though. To date the guy has never backed up one if his opinions with any solid information.

Elroid was let out of his cage.

[sunny31]

Thanks man.

I'm still here I just tire of this new direction the thread has taken ie ripping down the career of Wlad, undermining the victory of Fury so, to think some of the genuine Fury fans are actually going along with this notion is ludicrous.

I could sit here and underplay his victory claiming Father Time caught up with Wlad and a younger version would have trounced Fury but it undermines a Wladimir victory in a rematch. How does Fury then appear as a win for Klitschko should he overcome him in a rematch. If folk want to call that my agenda fine, I'm not gonna lie. But some of the dudes on here claiming they have no agenda when it is clear they aren't even Fury fans I find laughable.

I heard some of the posters in here claiming Wlad looked poor against Jennings last out and that he was in decline and also now it is a great victory for Fury... You guys really need to make your mind, is or was Wlad shot or not ?

I was actually looking forward to the debate after the Fury fight but the way it has shaped up I genuinely dislike coming in here for the narrow minded simplistic views of a few who now have a foothold in this thread.

Haters gonna hate.




Who do you think wins between Wilder and Fury should they fight next ?

Dude - get over it. No one is ripping down the career of Wlad, people just see him for what he is. I have defended Wlad on NSB as far back as 2006 when people were still not sold on him and fans were still calling him a chinless bum. From the low point of the first Brewster fight he has accomplished a hell of a lot, and he has done things that I think no one believed he could during that time. I knew deep down that he would come back and become a champion because I believed in his talent, did I think he could defend it 20 times? NO. But then slowly over time what happened to him and it happens all the time in sport, is that he has eventually become overrated. His hardcore fans are the biggest culprits, especially on here. They think he is some evolutionary force of nature that would have trounced every heavyweight of past era's based on him dominating inferior talent during a poor generation of heavyweights. Size and athleticism is all well and good, but it is far from the be all and end all in boxing. You guys act like there weren't big heavyweight contenders in past era's.

I have seen Klitschko fans try and make out that Corrie Sanders had more physical potential then any heavyweight in history. It's totally laughable, he had size, speed, and power so have a 1,000 heavyweights. At the same time you guys bash previous generations of heavyweights and the disrespect is appalling to fans like me who know there history, and more importantly know boxing. You know something? Wlad would have probably flattened some previous great heavyweights, he might have destroyed Joe Frazier, the size difference may have been too much for a backfoot boxer like Larry Holmes. That doesn't make him a better fighter or more skilful fighter.

Wladimir is one of the greatest heavyweights of all time I would have him in my top 20 personally, but he is the product of a poor generation. There is a chance that he will retire not having beaten 1 HOF fighter. At the end of the day you are judged on the competition you beat. His professionalism, consistency, and his ability to dominate average, good, and a few very good fighters is what makes him first ballot HOF. Even Tyson Fury, its hard to determine how good Fury is at the moment because his pages are still being written, but I can guarantee you (as a Brit) that he is not the second coming of Ali in a 6 9" body. He is a good big man, with good ability, nothing special.

If you weigh up Wladimir's strengths and weaknesses as a fighter, I think he made the absolute most he could out of his career, but what you guys need to realise is that those weaknesses and limitations have always been there and had he had better competition, they more than likely would have got exposed sooner and more often.

[billeau2]

Here you are trying to tell me you're in your late 40's to early 50's at the least and you were a fitness in the 80's would that not require some form of basic skills in dealing socially with other people day to day ? You demonstrate none of this, therefore I refuse whole heatedly to accept what you are telling me is true.

You're now attempting to move the debate away from actual boxing itself and present us with this 'analytical' stance Elroy or Roid or whatever is it you choose to call him other than his username, when clearly he can analyse what he has seen in the boxing fights of the career of said boxer we're breaking down.

This to me indicates you're attempting to take the debate to a personal one between yourself and Elroy and move away from the subject matter, all you're doing here is claiming Elroy can not discuss in a debate rationally when in truth all he is doing is disagreeing with you, that is not even my opinion that is fact.

I disagree with Elroy myself, I don't subscribe to the notion Wlad is over the hill thus undermining the victory of Fury or a rematch win for Klitschko, ok many here claiming the Fury win was a great one were claiming Jennings made Klitschko look poor last out and he is in fact in decline,maybe this is true and I myself am overlooking this, with the Fury loss now dealt the tell tale signs may very well have been or actually be there. Again I neither agree nor disagree at this point as I would like to see what Klitschko has to offer in a rematch before making any snap judgement I do not whole heartedly agree with.

You're antagonised by Elroy because he is literally only one of a very select few who are Klitschko supporters now carrying this thread, because you disagree with his beliefs, these beliefs are his opinions whether you choose to accept them or not you can not simply claim them not to be true when he is backing them up with substantial proof to the contrary of your beliefs.

You must not have read my post. Your kind of a waste of my time scott, nothing personal, by now.

[billeau2]

The academy where you were spanked is of no interest of significance to myself whatsoever, your private life and sexual encounters have no place in this thread.

See response to other post. Sexual? I guess you don't know what the academy is...so you assume and post an inanity...you and Elroy are quite similar actually.

[billeau2]

People ought to to learn to be fans of the sport of boxing, instead of being nut huggers.

I love all boxers, except the douche bag ones.

You need the douche ones to clean the sport out...err I mean up.