Is Roy Jones in the top 20 all time great?

[IronDanHamza]

No toney, from all i have read and heard, was in good shape in 90-92 because they were fighting him all the time, and his handlers knew you give him 2 weeks off he will be a fatboy,,, and there was alittle over 2 months between fights for toney leading into roy, i believe...

Honestly i dont want to debate this forever, I dont think it was peak toney, and even if it was its still not enough to make you top 20 ATG

Like you always say in history section,, its resume,, not H2h and roy's resume is not one of the best 20 of all time,, he is top 50,, probably around 25,, but not top 20

Well, there was 3 months between fights for the second McCallum fight, the one he won, so again what's the difference?

There was one month between fights for the Reggie Johnson fight but let me guess, he wasn't in shape for that fight because he didn't look very good?

There was also one month between fights for the Merqui Sosa fight, was he also not in shape for that one?

These fights were in the early 90's, the time that he was apparently "In shape" yet he didn't look good in those fights.

There's no difference between them, other than Roy dominating Toney which for some reason you can't accept is possible without Toney being in poor shape.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Go look it up on box rec your downing the guy but he fought who mattered and for starting at 154 and unifying 175 and w inning a heavy title shows what Roy is made of.

You would have an argument if Roy had a career like Duran winning a title and never defending it.

name these 20 champs,,,, Its about quality not quantity,,,

I dont need boxrec, i watched roy before he was a pro,,

he beat hopkins for a vacant belt,, didnt defend vs anyone worth a damn

same thing at 168,,, vinny paz, brannon, lucas, are those high caliber defenses

at 175 the division was relatively weak and roy beat everyone but the clear #1 besides roy in michlewski,,, i dont blame roy for that fight not happening,,

Look i think roy is top 50,,, i got him around 25 roughly,,

I just dont think his resume makes him top 20,,,


Am i really being a hater when i claim the guy top 50 ATG and roughly 25,,,

It discredits guys like ross, mcclarin, hagler, benny leonard, when you put a resume like roy's in their league,,,

[LacedUp]

What's the difference between that and the McCallum fight?

He was always that heavy going into camp and always had to shead of loads of weight for every fight he had at 160-168.

This was the case for all of Toney's fights yet he was only out of shape for the one with Roy Jones. Why? Seems to be the only reason is because he dominated him.

Maybe Roy's just that good?

If I'm not mistaken, Toney's last fight at '68 was against Roy, wasn't it?

that could be a sign that it was getting too much for him.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Well, there was 3 months between fights for the second McCallum fight, the one he won, so again what's the difference?

There was one month between fights for the Reggie Johnson fight but let me guess, he wasn't in shape for that fight because he didn't look very good?

There was also one month between fights for the Merqui Sosa fight, was he also not in shape for that one?

These fights were in the early 90's, the time that he was apparently "In shape" yet he didn't look good in those fights.

There's no difference between them, other than Roy dominating Toney which for some reason you can't accept is possible without Toney being in poor shape.

Dan we will just have to agree to disagree on this one,,, it was a good win for roy no doubt,, but it was not a peak toney IMO, and roy basically shut him out,,,
Toney at peak, would still lose, but he would have a chance of catching roy like he did nunn,,, Toney always struggled vs movers that could box and punch, Nunn was outpointing him, so no doubt roy would as well if he could avoid the bombs for all 12 rounds.....
I just think toney wasnt in peak form for that fight,,,

And even if he was peak toney, its still not enough to make roy top 20 ATG

Do you seriously think Roy beating toney and hopkins is enough to land him in the top 20 ATG,,, based on resume, i just dont see it

[MGMGRAND]

Dan we will just have to agree to disagree on this one,,, it was a good win for roy no doubt,, but it was not a peak toney IMO, and roy basically shut him out,,,
Toney at peak, would still lose, but he would have a chance of catching roy like he did nunn,,, Toney always struggled vs movers that could box and punch, Nunn was outpointing him, so no doubt roy would as well if he could avoid the bombs for all 12 rounds.....
I just think toney wasnt in peak form for that fight,,,

And even if he was peak toney, its still not enough to make roy top 20 ATG

Do you seriously think Roy beating toney and hopkins is enough to land him in the top 20 ATG,,, based on resume, i just dont see it

Add Antonio Tarver to that, he was no Toney Or Hopkins, but he was a YOUNG good fighter, maybe a little bit over average and defintely was under rated, and Roy also beat Trinidad, although he was a older bloated Trinidad.

[IronDanHamza]

Dan we will just have to agree to disagree on this one,,, it was a good win for roy no doubt,, but it was not a peak toney IMO, and roy basically shut him out,,,
Toney at peak, would still lose, but he would have a chance of catching roy like he did nunn,,, Toney always struggled vs movers that could box and punch, Nunn was outpointing him, so no doubt roy would as well if he could avoid the bombs for all 12 rounds.....
I just think toney wasnt in peak form for that fight,,,

And even if he was peak toney, its still not enough to make roy top 20 ATG

Do you seriously think Roy beating toney and hopkins is enough to land him in the top 20 ATG,,, based on resume, i just dont see it

I know you don't think it's a peak Toney but the reasoning your using doesn't add up.

And I don't have Roy Jones Top 20. More like Top 30 I would have him.

[MrTambourineMan]

Go look it up on box rec your downing the guy but he fought who mattered and for starting at 154 and unifying 175 and w inning a heavy title shows what Roy is made of.

You would have an argument if Roy had a career like Duran winning a title and never defending it.

.........................

[robertzimmerman]

LMAO hill and mccallum were ancient guys,, literally mccallum was 42 years old fighting 4 divisons higher than his prime,,,

Cotto, mosely, oscar, were much better and champions when floyd fought them,, faded yes, downhill yes,,, but nowhere near as bad as mccallum and hill

Roy was the only person to knock out Hill in a 57 fight career. Hill knocked out Tiozzo two years after losing to Roy, in a single round.

McCallum was clearly past his best. He wasn't 42 though, he was almost 40.

Mosley was lucky to beat Mayorga and could only draw with Mora.

Oscar had been inactive, and retired the following year.

Cotto has never been the same since Marg.

[robertzimmerman]

I rate a fighter based off of what I see from him in his abilities in the ring. That's greatest of all time to "me" subjectively.

Others rate a fighter off of when they were born and what era they fought in. Although, I understand where they're coming from because how else can you gauge someone's ability but who's to say if said fighter fought in {insert era} the same wouldn't happen if not more.

I also think too much emphasis is put into life and death battles/wars. Roy is in a bad situation because I think if had he had wars in his prime like SRR, SRL and Ali did, he would be more respected. But because folks never came close to prime Roy, his era gets criticized and so does his strength of schedule

I agree with you 100%

I think Roy has a pretty strong resume. But he was so dominant, he doesn't get the credit he deserves.

The perfect example to use, is his fight with Ruiz, and Toney's fight with Jirov.

I love Toney, and his fight with Jirov was great and exciting.

Roy's fight with Ruiz was boring to many people.

So Toney gets loads of credit for his win, but Roy hardly gets any for his.

I'd bet my life that had Roy been dropped, and got up to beat Ruiz in a great back and forth exciting fight, then he'd have got much more credit than he got.

What about this scenario? What if Roy had needed rematches? What if they were exciting?

What if Roy's resume read:

Toney X 3
Ruiz X 2
Hill X 2
Griffin X 3

Etc.

Then what?

If all those fights had've happened, and they were great fights, people would probably hold Roy's resume in a much higher regard.

[robertzimmerman]

A lot of talk the last few pages about Roy's skills...

I don't rate his skills that high, his natural ability carried him, and his ring IQ

If Roy had great skills he would have lasted longer and easily made work of guys like target and johnson...
Hopkins and Floyd's athletic ability has been on declined for many years and can adapt and overcome based on skills
Roy was so unorthodox and athletic that once it faded he got owned by tarver twice and life and death once, and old Hopkins turned tarver into a sparring partner...

And I don't wanna hear about Roy and coming back from heavy and weight etc,, the same guys claim toney being out of shape is no big deal

Roy was a great athlete who heavily relied on his physical gifts. But he was also very skilled. People often say he didn't have great skills. That's nonsense. He used to fire combos off the ropes, that had uppercuts from either hand, and he threw double and treble hooks to the body and head. If that's not skill, I don't know what is. There's been many great athletes in boxing, but they didn't have Roy's shot variation.

Glen Johnson in my opinion, was just in the right place at the right time. Roy had a giant ego, and when Tarver beat him, it crushed him mentally. Roy signed to fight Glen, less than two months after the Tarver fight. According to Alton Merkerson, Roy's father and respected boxing writer Thomas Hauser, Roy hardly trained for the fight, and just went through the motions. His aura of invincibility had been smashed to pieces. Even Tarver said he came back to fight Glen far too soon. But he wanted to get back in the ring as soon as possible to eradicate the Tarver loss. Roy barely lost a round in his prime, yet he couldn't win a single round against Glen. It's clear that he wasn't physically and mentally at 100%. Clinton Woods went on to beat Glen.

Also, Toney's weight issues were different, losing fat at 26, isn't the same as losing muscle at nearly 35.