Do Wlad's 3 defeats hamper his ATG status?

[billeau2]

they hamper him to a point like Lewis's hampered him altho lewis avenged all his whereas wlad only avenged one

This point is a big one. Especially because Wlad really never fought another guy like Sanders after the defeat.... a hard punching, experienced, legitimate heavy weight Southpaw....At least I don't remember him doing so...

Also unfortunately upon scrutiny if you look at some of Wlad's battles. He pretty much went tooth and nail with Sam Peter who was not particularly good. Vitali on the other hand destroyed Peter....even a Peter that was a bit more shopworn.

I think that when historians start to look at this reign they will notice that Wlad in particular was a safety first kind of guy who took the easy way out. Lewis was always fighting the tough guys even when he didn't have to, guys like Grant (at the time considered tough) Morrison, etc. Wlad always seems to find a patsy...including the latest one...a guy who bends at the waist further than a prison ***** and has no real power to speak of.

[BostonGuy]

I used to be supportive of Wlad and was, at one point, a big fan of his. In light of his recent grab-hold-clinch b1tcha$$ performance, I'm hoping his suffers another defeat (KO preferably) that blemishes his accomplishments and keeps his name out of the ATG discussion.

[billeau2]

1) It is not the same, Pacquaio went on to fight guys like De la Hoya, Cotto, Margarito, Hatton, JMM, Barrera etc. Wlad went on to fight ... who? his best win is probably Haye or Peters. The level of competition is just not the same.

2) Wlad makes it weak?. Does he force feed Arreola and Solis (fighters that by the way, he did not fight)?. And I'd say the "top guys", no other World Champion in history had the benefit of a brother who would fight punchers, so that Wlad doesn't have to. What if Vitali wasn't there to beat Sanders and then retire?.

3) Yes, there are many other fighters with embarassing losses, but most of them are not ATG. What ATG has that kind of losses mixed with an unimpressive competition? (since you bring out Pacquaio I guess you are talking about ATG's in all weight classes, while Wladimir isn't even a top 10 HW ATG in my opinion).

Bingo!

And it is amusing how Wlad fans have to always explain away his loses....As a Lewis fan? my explanation? Lewis got caught with a punch. He also got the judges nod against that journeyman (can;t remember the name)....so what? look at the difference in the comp. It would be analogous to Wlad fighting Fury, Solis, and the other guys who are a real danger. In fact Vitali is much better imo. Wlad had choices. Chisora is a lot more dangerous than Potevkin! Haye is out there....Thompson, Solis, etc. Wlad chose the level of comp he chose and is not ATV because of it imo.

[Szef]

I used to be supportive of Wlad and was, at one point, a big fan of his. In light of his recent grab-hold-clinch b1tcha$$ performance, I'm hoping his suffers another defeat (KO preferably) that blemishes his accomplishments and keeps his name out of the ATG discussion.

That's harsh

[GeneralZod]

Bingo!

And it is amusing how Wlad fans have to always explain away his loses....As a Lewis fan? my explanation? Lewis got caught with a punch. He also got the judges nod against that journeyman (can;t remember the name)....so what? look at the difference in the comp. It would be analogous to Wlad fighting Fury, Solis, and the other guys who are a real danger. In fact Vitali is much better imo. Wlad had choices. Chisora is a lot more dangerous than Potevkin! Haye is out there....Thompson, Solis, etc. Wlad chose the level of comp he chose and is not ATV because of it imo.

but but but you're just saying that because he's European. Euro fighters never get respect!...aside from that Lennox guy but he's black so he doesn't count!

[crold1]

It wouldn't be fair really.

How much does Pacquiao's losses to Singsurat and Torrecampo affect his ATG status?

"Well, Pacquiao made up for it by winning titles in 8 weight classes and beating HOF'ers."

So, didn't Wlad made up for it? He became the reigning HW champ for how many years? Against top 10 HW's. Sure the division is weak, but Wlad makes it weak, and as soon as he retires, you will see how exciting the HW division will get. It's weak because the top guy there is too dominant.

There are other fighters who had a few losses to worst fighters than Sanders and Brewster and people still like them. This is about Wlad's style, that's what the hate is all about. If he was knocking guys out in 3 rounds or less, people would have gone crazy over him.

There is some validity in this as far as the general notion that some fighters just lose a few early. That said, circumstances matter and Pac's losses were much different Wlad's. Wlad was a Gold Medalist with a much better pedigree early than Pac. Of those two losses, one doesn't appear to come from a punch (a brutal, simultaneous headbutt/low blow did the trick in Torrecampo). The other came when he was severely drained and still lost his Fly title on the scales. Heavyweights don't deal with issues like that. And Sanders and Brewster weren't early. He was seven and eight years into his career with over 40 pro starts.

he's added some wrinkles and changed his game since. Those losses will always count to a degree, especially after the frightened showing against Povetkin that reminds people why he fights like this sometimes. That said, I think the good outweighs the bad in sheer accomplishment.

[smifnwessun]

boring! figher ATG is not even a serious consideration the klitscho sisters should take up wrassling instead.

[GeneralZod]

smh...... of course he is.

It's mostly opinion of course, but it's not hard to drop 10-15 Heavys above Wlad.

[BostonGuy]

That's harsh

He has the skills, the experience, the size & reach, the power, the conditioning; all the tools to excite and dazzle fans yet he fights like a coward, let alone "the undisputed hw champion of the world." I excused it for a long time but cannot anymore after the Povetkin fight

[LacedUp]

no, he was green at that time and those losses were pre manny who rightfully so taught him how to be the dominate force he is today.

He had more than 40 pro fights at the time he lost to both Brewster and Sanders. Hardly green.

On note, of course it hurts him. Not because they were losses, but because they were losses to guys he was supposed to beat comfortably. Like Sanders who came in a couple of weeks before and accepted the fight completely out of shape to destroy him. Doesn't exactly look good on his resume.

The fact that he never avenged those defeats also hurt his resume too. Sure he avenged Lamon Brewster, but only after he'd already lost again and not fought in over a year.

If he hadn't had those losses of course his status would be higher. No brainer.