Do Wlad's 3 defeats hamper his ATG status?

[LacedUp]

I can't recall the time he had to train but he got in career best shape. lennox lewis called him before the fight & gave him a few pointers. if wlad beat sanders lennox was going to give him a title shot. wlad offered 10 other unnamed opponents the biggest paydays of their careers to get in the ring with him. all turned him down. sanders had made a name for himself when he was brought in as an opponent to fight rahman. to this day rahman said he never had been hit that hard by anyone including getting cleanly knocked out by lennox & maskaev...

I remember Lewis and HBO being quite dissappointed as they were obviously trying to build Wlad up to be the next big thing. Let's not try to elevate Sanders to a point he doesn't belong. Strong fighter, but came up short when it mattered. Same with the Rahman fight - He completely dominated the fight until the stoppage.

Dissapointing. He had a lot of talents, did Sanders. I really liked him. Quick, strong, powerful. But wlad should have beaten him.

[BafanaBafana]

Why are you saying he was raw? He had more fights when he lost to Sanders and Brewster than Lewis had his whole career! He was a seasoned pro and a heavy fav, there shouldn't be any excuses. They were crap losses. Just as Rahman and McCall were for Lewis.

Don't get the comparison though. Lewis fought for rematches straight away, Wlad avoided his.

Lewis got KO'd while at his best, Wladimir didn't truly hit his best form until he started training with Manny Steward. The fact that Lewis later avenged his losses to the couples bums that KO'd him (who he was expected to beat anyway) doesn't change the fact that he got brutally KO'd by those bums while in his prime.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

They certainly do damage to his legacy to an extent but considering he was still raw at the time, they probably shouldn't affect his legacy quite as much as Lennox's KO losses.

Lewis rematched and beat both guys,, and Mccall and Rahman are better than a purrity, sanders, brewster,,, not by much but a prime mccall and rahman are very dangerous opponents, Sanders was also very dangerous, but not purrity and brewster....
Lewis avenged both, and fought and beat alot more fighters,,, lewis has a prime ruddock, bruno, golata, grant, akiwande, tua, rahman, mccall, morrison, mercer, vitali all prime, on his resume, and wlad has tony thompson, byrd, haye, povetkin,,,

Why are you saying he was raw? He had more fights when he lost to Sanders and Brewster than Lewis had his whole career! He was a seasoned pro and a heavy fav, there shouldn't be any excuses. They were crap losses. Just as Rahman and McCall were for Lewis.

Don't get the comparison though. Lewis fought for rematches straight away, Wlad avoided his.

I agree but lewis didnt rematch mccall till 3 years later, rahman however was an immediate rematch

[Mikhnienko]

He had more than 40 pro fights at the time he lost to both Brewster and Sanders. Hardly green.

On note, of course it hurts him. Not because they were losses, but because they were losses to guys he was supposed to beat comfortably. Like Sanders who came in a couple of weeks before and accepted the fight completely out of shape to destroy him. Doesn't exactly look good on his resume.

The fact that he never avenged those defeats also hurt his resume too. Sure he avenged Lamon Brewster, but only after he'd already lost again and not fought in over a year.

If he hadn't had those losses of course his status would be higher. No brainer.

Wlad tried to rematch Sanders and was his mandatory but Corrie decided to fight Vitali for the WBC and RING magazine title since they were rated 1 and 2 in a fight that would establish a new lineage and be more lucrative.

This point is a big one. Especially because Wlad really never fought another guy like Sanders after the defeat.... a hard punching, experienced, legitimate heavy weight Southpaw....At least I don't remember him doing so...

Also unfortunately upon scrutiny if you look at some of Wlad's battles. He pretty much went tooth and nail with Sam Peter who was not particularly good. Vitali on the other hand destroyed Peter....even a Peter that was a bit more shopworn.

I think that when historians start to look at this reign they will notice that Wlad in particular was a safety first kind of guy who took the easy way out. Lewis was always fighting the tough guys even when he didn't have to, guys like Grant (at the time considered tough) Morrison, etc. Wlad always seems to find a patsy...including the latest one...a guy who bends at the waist further than a prison ***** and has no real power to speak of.

Do you have any idea how rare southpaw HW's are? In spite of this Wlad has faced more than any hw champion in history fighting 6 in 8 fights. Byrd x2, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Thompson x2, Sanders, Pianeta. There have only been 5 southpaw hw champions in history and Wlad faced 4 of them.

By the way Lennox never fought Byrd, Moorer, or Sanders and when Lennox volunteered himself as a consultant to Sanders when he fought Vitali (something he frequently did for Vitali opponents because he's still bitter) Sanders said Lennox told him he purposely avoided him.

he will go to the hall of fame but i'm not sure where he will rank. he has lots of wins but none of them are against hall of famers. he beat chris byrd twice & those are his best wins. I think it's his level of competition that could hurt him. the corrie sanders & purity losses hurt him some as those guys were journeymen. sander's only win was over wlad. he never beat any other decent HWs & vitali gets way to much credit for beating him. sanders was just another big puncher with little else to offer. I've seen plenty of people say lewis should never of lost to McCall or rahman & I agree but both those guys were world champions & were legitimate contenders throughout their careers while purity & sanders were not. everyone has their own opinion on the matter. I think he is a sure-fire hall of famer & he's somewhere in the top 20 just because of his longevity. his handlers did the same thing with him as deontay wilder's team is doing now. wlad never fought anyone until he had over 30 fights. he can thank Emmanuel steward for his success because he was going down the toilet fast until he hooked up with him. the thing is he cherry picks his voluntaries against guys like wach, mormeck, pianeta. ever since the sanders fight the only guys wlad ever went after were guys he could dominate. his best competition was forced upon him by mandatories. lennox lewis went after the big boys because that's where the money & prestige was at. he vacated 2 world titles he collected when he chose not to fight byrd & akinwande a second time. he always said mandatories were a thorn in his side. he made voluntary defences vs rahman, McCall, golota, holyfield, Tyson, vitali klitschko, botha, briggs,tony tucker & frank Bruno... you got about 12 world titles between just his voluntary competition. beating guys like this is how you become an ATG not beating the sosnowski's & pianeta's...

So much wrong with the post its unreal. Some of the more hilarious ones

- Sanders just a big puncher with nothing else to offer. How about being a supurb counter puncher with some of the fastest hands the division has seen in the last 25 years?

- Wlad cherry picks voluntaries and avoids the best. Jesus Christ. He went out of his way to fight the best and unify against Ibragimov, Chagaev, Haye, Povetkin and literally struggled for years to get the last two in the ring with him. He had that dreadful 2012 because Arreola, Fury, Helenius among others turned down title shots. He's the only HW Champion in history where contenders refuse to fight him.

[LacedUp]

Lewis got KO'd while at his best, Wladimir didn't truly hit his best form until he started training with Manny Steward. The fact that Lewis later avenged his losses to the couples bums that KO'd him (who he was expected to beat anyway) doesn't change the fact that he got brutally KO'd by those bums while in his prime.

If Wlad wasn't at his best when he lost to Sanders, then surely you could make a case for Lewis not being at his best against McCall? I'm not even trying to make excuses for Lewis, because he lost fair and square. So did Wlad, and nobody's at their best when they lose - so the argument doesn't really make sense. I bet people would have said that Wlad was old if he lost to Povetkin too. Fact is, he lost with 40 pro fights on his back and on the back of winning world titles in his 7-8 year pro career. He was just as much at his best as Lewis was against Rahman and McCall.

I agree but lewis didnt rematch mccall till 3 years later, rahman however was an immediate rematch

I know, but he went for it, Wlad didn't.

[violaandme]

I am as big of detractor of Wladimirs greatness as there is but loses though they are a negative obviously all the all time greats have them and most have at least one against a foe that was a no one and his ressume is also as bad as there is as far as all time greats go but he can't do anything but keep winning against whoever there is infront of him so as long as he does not duck people then what can you say but he's the champ

there is no one out there that could make me think highly of him and thus I will always question his greatness but to be honest there is not much he can do about it

[BafanaBafana]

Lewis rematched and beat both guys,, and Mccall and Rahman are better than a purrity, sanders, brewster,,, not by much but a prime mccall and rahman are very dangerous opponents, Sanders was also very dangerous, but not purrity and brewster....
Lewis avenged both, and fought and beat alot more fighters,,, lewis has a prime ruddock, bruno, golata, grant, akiwande, tua, rahman, mccall, morrison, mercer, vitali all prime, on his resume, and wlad has tony thompson, byrd, haye, povetkin,,,
I agree but lewis didnt rematch mccall till 3 years later, rahman however was an immediate rematch

My argument is not who has the better resume, I think it's pretty clear that Lennox has the better overall resume. My argument was that Wladimir's losses likely affect his legacy less than Lennox's losses do.

Lewis got KO'd while at his best, Wladimir didn't truly hit his best form until he started training with Manny Steward. The fact that Lewis later avenged his losses to the couples bums that KO'd him (who he was expected to beat anyway) doesn't change the fact that he got brutally KO'd by those bums while in his prime.

It should be noted that if a prime Wladimir rematched any of the guys that beat him earlier in his carrier, he would more than likely beat them in sound fashion (he did rematch and stop Brewster). The fact that Lennox while in his prime avenged his losses (going 1-1 w/them), doesn't change (or erase) the fact that he got brutally KO'd and lost his Championship titles to those guys.

[LacedUp]

Wlad tried to rematch Sanders and was his mandatory but Corrie decided to fight Vitali for the WBC and RING magazine title since they were rated 1 and 2 in a fight that would establish a new lineage and be more lucrative.

Find me a source of Wlad trying to make an immediate rematch. Because that did absolutely not happen. He wanted to regroup mentally, hence he fought that dude Moli.

[crold1]

Wlad tried to rematch Sanders and was his mandatory but Corrie decided to fight Vitali for the WBC and RING magazine title since they were rated 1 and 2 in a fight that would establish a new lineage and be more lucrative.



Do you have any idea how rare southpaw HW's are? In spite of this Wlad has faced more than any hw champion in history fighting 6 in 8 fights. Byrd x2, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Thompson x2, Sanders, Pianeta. There have only been 5 southpaw hw champions in history and Wlad faced 4 of them.

By the way Lennox never fought Byrd, Moorer, or Sanders and when Lennox volunteered himself as a consultant to Sanders when he fought Vitali (something he frequently did for Vitali opponents because he's still bitter) Sanders said Lennox told him he purposely avoided him.


So much wrong with the post its unreal. Some of the more hilarious ones

- Sanders just a big puncher with nothing else to offer. How about being a supurb counter puncher with some of the fastest hands the division has seen in the last 25 years?

- Wlad cherry picks voluntaries and avoids the best. Jesus Christ. He went out of his way to fight the best and unify against Ibragimov, Chagaev, Haye, Povetkin and literally struggled for years to get the last two in the ring with him. He had that dreadful 2012 because Arreola, Fury, Helenius among others turned down title shots. He's the only HW Champion in history where contenders refuse to fight him.

Vit and Sanders were not 1-2 in Ring. Just WBC

[BafanaBafana]

If Wlad wasn't at his best when he lost to Sanders, then surely you could make a case for Lewis not being at his best against McCall? I'm not even trying to make excuses for Lewis, because he lost fair and square. So did Wlad, and nobody's at their best when they lose - so the argument doesn't really make sense.

The only 'argument that really doesn't make sense' is saying "nobody is at their best when they lose. You can be at your very best and still lose. Lennox got hit clean in his china glass chin and got KO'd. Wladimir was exposed for the raw fighter he was earlier in his career and got stopped. Then Manny took him under his wing and taught Wladimir how to protect his chin and and as a result Wladimir hasn't lost a fight in roughly 10 years.

I bet people would have said that Wlad was old if he lost to Povetkin too. Fact is, he lost with 40 pro fights on his back and on the back of winning world titles in his 7-8 year pro career. He was just as much at his best as Lewis was against Rahman and McCall.

No, because Wladimir wasn't in his prime yet, he needed a world class trainer like Manny Stewart to help him polish his technique and improve his defense. Lennox has no reasonable excuse, he was KO'd in his prime.