Do Wlad's 3 defeats hamper his ATG status?

[LacedUp]

Not sure on Dempsey but I def agree on Holmes and Holy. Holy was arguably the best, or second best, in the second best era in the history of the division. He had one shaky/bad loss to Moorer near his prime but he had a slew of excellent wins and I though the Lewis fights had the right scores in reverse order (meaning Lewis won the first clean but Holy held a draw past his prime in the rematch).

That's a push/pull throughout Heavyweight history though. Dominant champs often reside over lesser eras (Johnson in terms of the white title challengers club he stuck too almost exclusively, Louis, Holmes, Wlad). It's harder to run mine fields unscathed. This era has better fighters than it sometimes gets credited for but it has lacked in terms of offensive juggernauts or some of the explosiveness, conditioned, and stamina we've seen in other eras. I think Holmes, until he got a little conservative after Cooney, faced generally better opposition than Wlad has. I'm not sure Louis beat better in his clean out of the 30s.

But Louis doesn't have a Purrity on his ledger either. I can excuse Purrity to a degree, but it can't be ignored.

The era is not Wlad's fault. His reign is long and merits mention with the great champs IMO.

I reserve the right to rethink all of this whenever I want.

Great post Cliff.

Holyfield very underrated on this forum nowadays! Great fighter. With regards to Johnson, the only thing that puts him down in my book is the fact that he 'ducked' Langford for years, despite him being in the #1 position.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Sorry dude, but when you're 27 years old with 41 pro fights you're in your prime.

exactly

wlad had been an olympian, had won world titles and had 40 fights yet he was green,, WTF

He was green when he lost to purrity, that is obvious, but not when he lost to brewster and sanders.....


Its like when people are saying danny garcia too green for floyd, yet the dude has wins over campbell, holt, morales twice, judah, khan, lucas,, I dont know how much more you need to do to not be "green"

now if danny had just holt and campbell under his belt then yes he would be green for floyd,, but not after the morales fights, judah, khan and lucas, Danny has fought every style and has won everytime

[Poet682006]

Did not you die yet?

Only in your perverse dreams faqqot.

[LacedUp]

exactly

wlad had been an olympian, had won world titles and had 40 fights yet he was green,, WTF

He was green when he lost to purrity, that is obvious, but not when he lost to brewster and sanders.....


Its like when people are saying danny garcia too green for floyd, yet the dude has wins over campbell, holt, morales twice, judah, khan, lucas,, I dont know how much more you need to do to not be "green"

now if danny had just holt and campbell under his belt then yes he would be green for floyd,, but not after the morales fights, judah, khan and lucas, Danny has fought every style and has won everytime

Most fanboys like to brush this one under the carpet.

[Poet682006]

You are officially my biatch
.

So you're really say you want to have gay sex with him? Ewwwwwww :gay:

[Weltschmerz]

Lol what are you even talking about?

Talking about you. And you suck.

[Weltschmerz]

Only in your perverse dreams faqqot.

I had. But you still need to die.

[Simurgh]

Yes, it would be the same if Wlad kept on fighting until he was 50. That wouldn't change the fact that he was a dominant champion in this era would it? Or the fact that Ali kept fighting 7-8 years after he should have stopped doesn't change his status? Or the fact that Joe Louis kept on fighting and losing? this has happened to boxing greats time and time again. It's more the rule than the exception that boxers fight on way too long. It shouldn't take away from the greatness they achieved in their primes. At least not in my opinion.

It's not just about one fight. Holmes' resume is comparable to Wlad's as I said, but he did have his fights with Norton, Shavers, Mercer, Cooney, Berbick, Witherspoon, Bonecrusher etc. Those wins are better than Wlad's wins I'm sorry to say. Haye/Byrd would have been top wins for Holmes too imo, but Holmes has more good wins than Wlad.

Well that's why I rate Lennox so high. He knew it when he needed to retire. All those listed above are great no doubt, but they would be even greater if they retire on top. (Manny used to say that a lot, and I agree). Lennox's status is rightfully high because of that among the other things.

Some of those Holmes wins I do rate quite high, but not really higher than Wlad's. Exception is Norton maybe and maaybe Shavers. But I don't think they are much better than Haye/Byrd.

And Wlad didn't only won those fight he really didn't leave any doubt. Norton could have won that fight against Holmes.

If Wlad loses by the time he retires it will affect his status regardless how old is he.

[Poet682006]

exactly

wlad had been an olympian, had won world titles and had 40 fights yet he was green,, WTF

He was green when he lost to purrity, that is obvious, but not when he lost to brewster and sanders.....


Its like when people are saying danny garcia too green for floyd, yet the dude has wins over campbell, holt, morales twice, judah, khan, lucas,, I dont know how much more you need to do to not be "green"

now if danny had just holt and campbell under his belt then yes he would be green for floyd,, but not after the morales fights, judah, khan and lucas, Danny has fought every style and has won everytime

The thing is, most do agree that Wlad was green for Purrity. It's when the fan bois try to extend that "greenness" to Sanders and Brewster that the whole thing blows up. Truth is, nobody would even be bringing up the Purrity fight if the Klitschko fan bois didn't constantly bring up losses past greats suffered when they were washed up.

[Poet682006]

I had. But you still need to die.

Keep dreaming douchebag because that's the only place that will ever be a reality.