Vitali's mythical poor resume pt 2

[bklynboy]

lol the vit is an ATG argument in a nutshell. Damn that Lewis ... didn't he realize punching Vitali in the face isn't fair??

I think the argument is more that skill-wise VK held his own with LL. In fact he out-boxed LL in the first 3 rounds.

Now, we all know that 3 rounds only counts in the amateurs. In the pros we're just getting started at that point.

If VK was a total bum (as some make him out to be) he wouldn't have done the damage he did to LL. LL is a TOP 20 All-Time heavyweight. Cuts like that are not that common. They happen, of course, but the fight deserved a rematch to see who was better.

A case can be made that VK and LL were pretty equal at the time they fought. (This is not to say that VK could have beaten a prime LL - only that a 30 yr old VK could beat a 37 year old LL).

As a fight fan I wanted to see a rematch, and as it turned out, LL was the only quality fighter VK ever fought. I would have loved to the rematch. Both would have been inspired and wanted to prove themselves.

[Boxing Goat]

I think the argument is more that skill-wise VK held his own with LL. In fact he out-boxed LL in the first 3 rounds.

Now, we all know that 3 rounds only counts in the amateurs. In the pros we're just getting started at that point.

If VK was a total bum (as some make him out to be) he wouldn't have done the damage he did to LL. LL is a TOP 20 All-Time heavyweight. Cuts like that are not that common. They happen, of course, but the fight deserved a rematch to see who was better.

A case can be made that VK and LL were pretty equal at the time they fought. (This is not to say that VK could have beaten a prime LL - only that a 30 yr old VK could beat a 37 year old LL).

As a fight fan I wanted to see a rematch, and as it turned out, LL was the only quality fighter VK ever fought. I would have loved to the rematch. Both would have been inspired and wanted to prove themselves.

So the other dozen or so Ring top ten heavyweights were not quality fighters?

That's not a fair statement.

Vitali is slightly lacking in overall resume because of the 4 years he took off, but that doesn't mean he's not been fighting good opposition at an advanced age.

I would hardly say an Olympic Gold medalist Solis is not a quality opponent. Nor would I say that about guys like Sanders, Kirk Johnson, Peter when he was good, Gomez, Arreola, Adamek and Chisora.

The fact is that Vitali is fighting good opposition for this time and kind of sharing them with his brother.

Either of them could be the man but history to them is being the two headed monster and it seems that pisses everyone off.

[bklynboy]

So the other dozen or so Ring top ten heavyweights were not quality fighters?

That's not a fair statement.

Vitali is slightly lacking in overall resume because of the 4 years he took off, but that doesn't mean he's not been fighting good opposition at an advanced age.

I would hardly say an Olympic Gold medalist Solis is not a quality opponent. Nor would I say that about guys like Sanders, Kirk Johnson, Peter when he was good, Gomez, Arreola, Adamek and Chisora.

The fact is that Vitali is fighting good opposition for this time and kind of sharing them with his brother.

Either of them could be the man but history to them is being the two headed monster and it seems that pisses everyone off.

Usually when people talk about how good VK or WK is they're comparing them with all-time greats. It's not their fault that they came up in a bad era. I don't think that Arreola, Adamek or Solis are top fighters. Arreola might have been good if he had trained and fought more often.

Compare the top heavyweights of today VK, WK, David Haye, Chisora, Adamek, Tyson Fury with those of the 1990s such as:

Rid**** Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield and David Tua,

I would have 2nd tier fighters from the 1990s: Razor Rud****, Ray Mercer, Tommy Morrison, Frank Bruno, Oliver McCall , Andrew Golotta and Shannon Briggs as better than any heavyweight today except for the Ks.

All that being said - I'm a fan of the Klitschkos. I think that they would have been forged into much better fighters if they had been forced to compete against higher quality opponents.

[Boxing Goat]

Usually when people talk about how good VK or WK is they're comparing them with all-time greats. It's not their fault that they came up in a bad era. I don't think that Arreola, Adamek or Solis are top fighters. Arreola might have been good if he had trained and fought more often.

Compare the top heavyweights of today VK, WK, David Haye, Chisora, Adamek, Tyson Fury with those of the 1990s such as:

Rid**** Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield and David Tua,

I would have 2nd tier fighters from the 1990s: Razor Rud****, Ray Mercer, Tommy Morrison, Frank Bruno, Oliver McCall , Andrew Golotta and Shannon Briggs as better than any heavyweight today except for the Ks.

All that being said - I'm a fan of the Klitschkos. I think that they would have been forged into much better fighters if they had been forced to compete against higher quality opponents.

There's no way to tell how those fighters could have fared against today's elite and the fact that those fighters are top ten ranked mean they are quality fighters.

That is my point.

Oh and the 2nd tier guys are more well known but that doesn't mean they automatically beat today's top ten.

The reason these guys today are not as known is because they don't have a chance to get a belt for any length of time because the Klitchko's have managed to secure all of them and keep them.

I gaurantee that Povetkin could beat most of the contenders you mentioned from the 90's. His gold medal says so too and his pro record. Of course there's no way to prove it one way or another.

[JAB5239]

He's one of the most dominant champions of all time, with the second highest hw ko ratio in history. His rule and dominance speaks volumes.

Problem is he was only the heavyweight champion for one defense against the ever great Danny Williams. Other than that he has only held a paper title and NEVER beaten the best fighter in the division.

[JAB5239]

Jab will be all over this thread in 3..2..1..

Seems you don't mind when other posters are wiping their chins of Vits spunk, but you get offended when someone tell the truth. Wonder why?

[JAB5239]

So the other dozen or so Ring top ten heavyweights were not quality fighters?

That's not a fair statement.

Vitali is slightly lacking in overall resume because of the 4 years he took off, but that doesn't mean he's not been fighting good opposition at an advanced age.

I would hardly say an Olympic Gold medalist Solis is not a quality opponent. Nor would I say that about guys like Sanders, Kirk Johnson, Peter when he was good, Gomez, Arreola, Adamek and Chisora.

The fact is that Vitali is fighting good opposition for this time and kind of sharing them with his brother.

Either of them could be the man but history to them is being the two headed monster and it seems that pisses everyone off.

What dozen or so Ring top 10 fighters are you speaking of? If you're not just lying you should relish this chance to put me in my place. How about the ring top 10 fighters he didn't fight?

Since 2000, and excluding the years he missed, these are all the top 10 fighters he didn't fight for one reason or another.

Tyson
Holyfield
Tua
Maskaev
Rahman
Ruiz
McCline
O'Quendo
Jones jr
Toney
Golota
Brewster
Barret
Chagaev
Povetkin
Valuev
Dimitrenko
Chambers
Haye
Boystov
Thompson
Helenius
Pulev
Fury

Pretty long list, huh?

[JAB5239]

Fact is, Vittles resume is PISS poor!

[daggum]

I think the argument is more that skill-wise VK held his own with LL. In fact he out-boxed LL in the first 3 rounds.

Now, we all know that 3 rounds only counts in the amateurs. In the pros we're just getting started at that point.

If VK was a total bum (as some make him out to be) he wouldn't have done the damage he did to LL. LL is a TOP 20 All-Time heavyweight. Cuts like that are not that common. They happen, of course, but the fight deserved a rematch to see who was better.

A case can be made that VK and LL were pretty equal at the time they fought. (This is not to say that VK could have beaten a prime LL - only that a 30 yr old VK could beat a 37 year old LL).

As a fight fan I wanted to see a rematch, and as it turned out, LL was the only quality fighter VK ever fought. I would have loved to the rematch. Both would have been inspired and wanted to prove themselves.

frank bruno was outboxing lennox and lennox wasn't old at that point. frank bruno all time great.

[Dr.Eisenfaust]

To follow up on my post a couple weeks ago, Vitali is more than a year since his last fight, and with prospect of fighting a mega fight against the winner of Haye Fury looking dim now, I suspect will prove to have fought his last fight. Nevertheless, even in his semi or permanently retired state, if you look over at Boxrec's ranking of active HW's, there are currently 4 Vitali victims in the top 10, and 0 Wlad victims. Its become a trendy thing to say Vitali has a significantly weaker resume than his brother, but like so much of conventional wisdom, there's no truth to that. Even now, when Sanders and Peter, easily the best non K's of the K era, and whom he performed much more impressively than his brother, are long retired, his other opponents are still outshining WK's active opponents. Granted boxrec isn't perfect, but it is the best, most scientific ranking body out there, by far. It illustrates that those top 4 opponents have faced and beaten more top opponents than Wlad's victims have at this point, even if those they've beaten don't have the "names" that mean so much to some fans. While the hater boxing nostalgiast nonfan will keep hating (and make no mistake, most Wlad "fans" who say he has the best resume between the two really don't particularly like Wlad either, they just like to say the weaker brother had the stronger resume, thereby discrediting both brothers) I'm confident real boxing fans and boxing historians will remember Vitali for the dominant, top 10 all time great HW champ he was. Apart from having beaten the top fighters of the Klitschko era, the fact that he's the only top 25 HW to have never been knocked down, the fact he has the 2nd highest ko ratio in history, and the fact he likely has the highest rounds won percentage in history, all show what a special champ he's been.

I can see that there are at least some honest people here on this forum. The longer jab shuts his dirty mouth, the better it is.