Miguel Cotto's opponents

[BoxingGenius27]

He wasn't a PPV star until after the Oscar fight but in terms of being considered "elite", I think, going off memory, that he was the universal P4P #1 in either 04 or 05. Latest 05, definitely by the time of the Gatti fight atleast.

Off memory, he wasn't an elite WW or JWW though.

In 2004/2005 he was still "trying" to get names with Kosta and I'm pretty sure Shane at that time.

Floyd was still climbing the ladder in the current new weight divisions he was entering.

There were countless fight there for him to fight. He still had A LOT of proving to do. Don't get me wrong, he had pretty good wins and if we're talking P4P status, sure many felt that he would win many fantasy matchups. But there was too much proving that he still had to accomplish at 140 and 147 to make him elite in those divisions

[BoxingGenius27]

Mayweather was fighter of the year in 98. Yet he wasn't elite yet? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills since I joined this forum

Mayweather still had tons of fights he was pursuing at 140 and 147.

That's like me saying Broner is an "elite" WW today because he beat Malignaggi and is a 3 weight champ.

Or like me saying Broner's an elite JWW while only fighting Maidana. Well what about Mathysse, Garcia, Peterson, Rios, ect

There was too much sorting out and Mayweather was still pursuing too many fights.

Now Andre Ward is hands down an elite SMW as is Carl Froch right now. Not too much more to figure out that they already figured out.

[IronDanHamza]

Off memory, he wasn't an elite WW or JWW though.

In 2004/2005 he was still "trying" to get names with Kosta and I'm pretty sure Shane at that time.

Floyd was still climbing the latter in the current new weight divisions he was entering.

There were countless fight there for him to fight. He still had A LOT of proving to do. Don't get me wrong, he had pretty good wins and if we're talking P4P status, sure many felt that he would win many fantasy matchups. But there was too much proving that he still had to accomplish at 140 and 147 to make him elite in those divisions

Oh no, not an elite WW in 05 of course as he wasn't there yet. JWW for sure though after the Gatti win. He was considered to be amongst the "elite" Jr WW's.

He certainly was considered an "elite" fighter though by then, I think in the early 00's, maybe 03 he was P4P Top 5 acorss the board and like I said, by 05 he was the universal #1.

Agreed on the WW thing though. That was a big question mark for quite some time on Mayweather. "He's elite but not at WW" "He's unproven at WW" that was the consensus to most. He'd beaten good, top ranked fighters there like Judah, Baldomir, Hatton etc but there was still question marks, really, in all honesty it wasn't until the Mosley fight that really changed the tide, when that fight was signed the consenus were saying "Now, If he beats Mosley then when can say he's an elite proven WW"

So I agree on the WW part. He was considered an "elite" fighter much before 07 but the question marks were still there in regards to WW.

[BoxingGenius27]

Oh no, not an elite WW in 05 of course as he wasn't there yet. JWW for sure though after the Gatti win. He was considered to be amongst the "elite" Jr WW's.

He certainly was considered an "elite" fighter though by then, I think in the early 00's, maybe 03 he was P4P Top 5 acorss the board and like I said, by 05 he was the universal #1.

Agreed on the WW thing though. That was a big question mark for quite some time on Mayweather. "He's elite but not at WW" "He's unproven at WW" that was the consensus to most. He'd beaten good, top ranked fighters there like Judah, Baldomir, Hatton etc but there was still question marks, really, in all honesty it wasn't until the Mosley fight that really changed the tide, when that fight was signed the consenus were saying "Now, If he beats Mosley then when can say he's an elite proven WW"

So I agree on the WW part. He was considered an "elite" fighter much before 07 but the question marks were still there in regards to WW.

I'll give you the Gatti fight at JWW. But, I remember there being several other fights for him at that weight before moving up.

But yes, when I say elite for Mayweather, I'm saying in 04/05 he still had some proving to do in his current weight class even though he was ranked P4P #1. If I recall correctly, he beat that African cat, forgot his name, Gatti and I think Chop Chop. I'm pretty sure Kosta was considered the guy in the division before moving up. Sure, Floyd tried to get the Kosta fight, but he still had some proving to do at that weight class.

The Gatti win was awesome though, don't get me wrong. I remember people knowing Floyd was gonna win, but they gave Gatti a punchers chance. But outside of Gatti, there were plenty of fights for Floyd at that weight, before he moved up to WW

[IronDanHamza]

I'll give you the Gatti fight at JWW. But, I remember there being several other fights for him at that weight before moving up.

But yes, when I say elite for Mayweather, I'm saying in 04/05 he still had some proving to do in his current weight class even though he was ranked P4P #1. If I recall correctly, he beat that African cat, forgot his name, Gatti and I think Chop Chop. I'm pretty sure Kosta was considered the guy in the division before moving up. Sure, Floyd tried to get the Kosta fight, but he still had some proving to do at that weight class.

The Gatti win was awesome though, don't get me wrong. I remember people knowing Floyd was gonna win, but they gave Gatti a punchers chance. But outside of Gatti, there were plenty of fights for Floyd at that weight, before he moved up to WW

Yeah agreed.

Despite being proven, he wasn't yet proven at WW.

Kosta Tszyu was the Lineal Champion, that's the fight Mayweather wanted. When it couldn't come off, he fought Gatti instead he was ranked #1 (Behind the Lineal Champion). Jr WW was no more than a quick stop for Mayweather. His eyes were set on Oscar for many years in advance, that's the fight he wanted.

The rest of his fights there, Ndou and Corley, I think Bruseless? Maybe Ndou was at 135, I'm not sure. But anyway, he had a few fights there that were more gimme fights, stay busy more than anything. Like I said, his eyes were set on getting Oscar down the road. He has no intention of staying at 140. He wanted Tszyu, couldn't get him, went for the next highest ranked.

All in all though I do agree with you on the WW thing. The question marks were there and that was the main "fault" on Floyd. His legitimacy at WW. That would be the main line for a long list on here every single day. It didn't truely end until the Mosley fight in 2010.

[BoxingGenius27]

Yeah agreed.

Despite being proven, he wasn't yet proven at WW.

Kosta Tszyu was the Lineal Champion, that's the fight Mayweather wanted. When it couldn't come off, he fought Gatti instead he was ranked #1 (Behind the Lineal Champion). Jr WW was no more than a quick stop for Mayweather. His eyes were set on Oscar for many years in advance, that's the fight he wanted.

The rest of his fights there, Ndou and Corley, I think Bruseless? Maybe Ndou was at 135, I'm not sure. But anyway, he had a few fights there that were more gimme fights, stay busy more than anything. Like I said, his eyes were set on getting Oscar down the road. He has no intention of staying at 140. He wanted Tszyu, couldn't get him, went for the next highest ranked.

All in all though I do agree with you on the WW thing. The question marks were there and that was the main "fault" on Floyd. His legitimacy at WW. That would be the main line for a long list on here every single day. It didn't truely end until the Mosley fight in 2010.

I can dig it Especially the part about "stay busy fights" cause that's what they were.

I'll just say that I think it can be debatable that he still had work at 140, but hey, I can work with that.

My point was is things weren't completely sorted out during that time like they are say at 168 with Ward, like some assumed in this thread. That was my only point.

[borikua]

Cotto has been one of the most entertaining fighters of his era. that's enough for me.

[BoxingGenius27]

My bad for mixing not being a PPV star in with Mayweather's current situations at 140 and 147. I should've clarified

[BoxingGenius27]

And if you really want to get technical, what Floyd did at JWW with Corely, Brueseles and Gatti may not have crap on what Cotto did at JWW which was Paulie, Corely, Bailey, Arabian dude he lost to in the olympics, Torres, Bronco, ect....

Then if we take it a step further to WW (pre-plasterito), Cotto DEFINITELY had the better run with Quintana, Urkal, Judah, Mosley and Gomez as oppose to Floyd's Hatton, Baldomir and Judah...

He was on Floyd's ass up until the retirement

[JoeKidd]

I would always watch Cotto fight. The guy is game. When everyone was collecting a paycheque against Pacquiao, he engaged. And bossed Floyd around a few times. Warrior! Nothing better you can say about a boxer. If Floyd & Pacquiao weren't around, he'd be a superstar.