Vitali's legacy

[LacedUp]

I don't get the anti-Klitschko bias either. As if the opponents of the past greats were so much superior to the modern era fighters. As you said, many of the wouldn't even be able to fight the Klitschko's today due to weight difference.

But it is exactly just what it is, I guess, people don't like that two super heavies from the Ukraine for more than a decade have been ruling the king division that historically belongs to America.

The Klitschko's will be more appreciated with time though, I feel, after they retire and people have more time to reflect on their true greatness and place in history.

No they won't. Wlad perhaps, not Vitali.

People will be bouncing around the day they both retire, so we can finally get some decent action in the HW division and not have to sit through 8 rounds of jab-jab-grab before someone finally throws the right hand.

The quality of the champions will undoubtedly decrease though. At least for a while before we get an exciting prospect.

Vitali and Wlad just aren't exciting. If you disagree, give me 1 win from each of them that made you sit on the edge of your seat. So to speak.

[Tommo1]

Laced Up you have posted the match ups as if the fighters they beat, lost to leading up to the fights were all bums.

Some were, some definitely are not!

No I already declared that Vitali had not fought the same level of comp as his brother but he still fought the best that was available at the time. He did retire for a while remember!

If you break apart ANY boxers record like that you can always find a circumstance that discredits the win in some way. But the over arching principles I outlined above are what he should be tested against!

So Ali and Louis fight cruisers and cans and they get in. Vitali fights monsters and doesn't cut it. **** off!

[LacedUp]

Laced Up you have posted the match ups as if the fighters they beat, lost to leading up to the fights were all bums.

Some were, some definitely are not!

No I already declared that Vitali had not fought the same level of comp as his brother but he still fought the best that was available at the time. He did retire for a while remember!

If you break apart ANY boxers record like that you can always find a circumstance that discredits the win in some way. But the over arching principles I outlined above are what he should be tested against!

So Ali and Louis fight cruisers and cans and they get in. Vitali fights monsters and doesn't cut it. **** off!

Not all fought against bums, but most of his wins were against guys that had already lost at significantly lower level than Vitali.

And which "monster" exactly did Vitali beat? Did he beat a prime Liston, Frazier, Foreman? Norton? Shavers?

All those guys were considered murderous punchers and great for their time.

Which fighter that Vitali has beaten, resembles anything remotely close to those?

[Weltschmerz]

a weak resume is definitely a good reason for him not being an ATG. I think he's a HOFer. But top 20 of all times? No.

Look at the resume you posted. Let's go through it as you say there's no further "argumentation".

First best win: Herbie Hide for the WBO championship. First off, I will add that the WBO was not part of the real heavyweight championship at the time. It was not considered a true belt and nobody fought for it. Herbie Hide had beaten Tony Tucker for the vacant belt. Tucker was 2-3 going into the fight with Hide - losing to European level Akinwande in the process. Herbie was a good fighter, quick and slick. But hadn't a single top 15 win on his resume. Herbie Hide's best ranking was a #7 in 94. He wasn't even in the top 10 when Vitali beat him.

Purrity: Had 15 losses. Best win: Wladimir Klitschko who wasn't even ranked in the top 15 either. Was 1-1-2 going into the fight vs Vitali. Had previously been KOd and lost to every serious challenger he faced.

Sam Peter: Was coming off two struggles vs James Toney (a former middleweight), and had been dropped 3 times vs McCline. Had stopped #4 ranked Maskaev in his previous bout - and was ranked #2-3 by Ring and a little further down by boxrec. Decent win, but had already been exposed by Wlad.

Corrie Sanders: Best win: Wladimir Klitschko. Previous best win was Michael Sprott. Had also previously been KOd by esteemed fighters like Nate Tubbs, and was also KOd by Rahman, despite leading on the cards. His whole career was a mess and he was not in the best shape vs Vitali. However, this is quite clearly Vitali best and most credible win.

Chris Arreola: Undefeated prospect, ranked #10 at the time. Best win was James McCline a decent fighter. decent win for Vitali.

This is where it gets interesting..

He's going on to fight 1 former LHW and CW and 1 former CWs in Adamek, Gomez. Adamek, despite his best HW win being an already beaten Chris Arreola and an old Andrew Golota, was ranked number #4 at the time. I'll go ahead and say good win, despite Vitali being 7 inches taller and weighing 40 pounds more.

Solis, Briggs, Gomez, Sosnowski, Chisora, Charr weren't top 10 at the time of the fight.

2 good wins and 2 decent wins, and a helluva lot of less than good fighters on his resume. Is that enough to achieve the status of ATGness? I don't think so.

There were plenty of fighters that he didn't fight, for one reason or another, that would have severely enhanced his status. Instead, that ranking goes to his brother, who has contentiously fought the best of the division through the last 5-6 years.

Yeah, but as myself and other posters pointed out, resume is in fact not everything when it comes to a fighter. How boring would it be if everything was just measured in numbers and statistics?

For example, Mike Tyson doesn't have the greatest resume, but most people consider him ATG due to other reasons such as his knockouts, style, influence on the sport, etc. There are more ways to look at things than just who fought who.

[JAB5239]

Solid and notable wins for Vitali:

1998
****y Ryan, Mario Schiesser, Francesco Spinelli

1999
Herbie Hide (wins WBO title)

2000
Timo Hoffmann (wins EBU title)

2001
Ross Puritty

2003
Kirk Johnson

2004
Danny Williams (wins WBC title)

2008
Sam Peter (WBC title)

2009-13
Dominates as WBC King vs notable opponents such as
Gomez (1 loss), Arreola (unbeaten) , Johnson (unbeaten), Solis (unbeaten), Adamek (1 loss), Chisora (2 losses).

Vitali holds the second best knockout-to-fight ratio in the history of hw boxing, over 87 percent. He is currently the 9th longest reigning hw champion in history. He has never been knocked down in a professional boxing match and never lost a decision, his only two losses coming as result of injury, while being ahead on all score cards.

Lol, what a joke of a post! The fact of the matter is Vittles resume sucks because his best wins have hardly accomplished anything against their contemporaries. It's not even arguable which is why you haven't even tried!!

Peter - Crude slugger who went tooth and nail with a former middleweight

Adamek - Former lightheavyweight who's best win at heavy was Arreola

Arreola - Has never beaten another top 10 heavyweight

Donald - His career best win is over a ten years past his best Tim Witherspoon

Hide - His best win was over 11-1 Michael Bentt

Sanders - Never beat a top ten fighter before or after Wlad. Was stopped by Nate Tubbs

Williams - Come on, this is a guy who lost to Julius Francis

Kirk Johnson - Possessed skills but in his biggest fights always came in fat and out of shape

Gomez - Former cruiserweight who beat a few guys thought to be decent but were either past it or went on to accomplish nothing

Solis - Talented but still a novice by professional standards. Ridiculed for never being in shape

[Tommo1]

So it's because they are not exciting is that right?

Well I can say the same about Ali. Nearly ALL his fights are stinkers. Jab, shoe shine combo, run away, run away.

Atleast Wladimir spends most of his time BOXING! Ali was the KING of clinching! ?If you take out the running and the clinching Ali only boxed about 30secs a riound!

In fact Ali would be disqualified today because his clinching is illegal (head down pushing etc).

Tyson was indeed more exciting. But that's no reason not to consider them ATG.

Honestly, they have perfected the art of the boxer-puncher style and the next successor at that level is likely to be another giant HW who becomes a technician like them and dominates in similar fashion. I think that is more likely than a future "super-Tyson".

Boxing has just transformed. Because ALL the HW's hit hard now. Featherfists are finished!

[Simurgh]

No they won't. Wlad perhaps, not Vitali.

People will be bouncing around the day they both retire, so we can finally get some decent action in the HW division and not have to sit through 8 rounds of jab-jab-grab before someone finally throws the right hand.

The quality of the champions will undoubtedly decrease though. At least for a while before we get an exciting prospect.

Vitali and Wlad just aren't exciting. If you disagree, give me 1 win from each of them that made you sit on the edge of your seat. So to speak.

For Wlad : peter I, byrd II, mercer, also I find TT I very exciting (wlad was forced to change his gameplan).

Vitali : hide, johnson, sanders.

[LacedUp]

Yeah, but as myself and other posters pointed out, resume is in fact not everything when it comes to a fighter. How boring would it be if everything was just measured in numbers and statistics?

For example, Mike Tyson doesn't have the greatest resume, but most people consider him ATG due to other reasons such as his knockouts, style, influence on the sport, etc. There are more ways to look at things than just who fought who.

Says the guy who keeps saying the he is one of the longest reigning heavyweights of all time.

[Weltschmerz]

No they won't. Wlad perhaps, not Vitali.

People will be bouncing around the day they both retire, so we can finally get some decent action in the HW division and not have to sit through 8 rounds of jab-jab-grab before someone finally throws the right hand.

The quality of the champions will undoubtedly decrease though. At least for a while before we get an exciting prospect.

Vitali and Wlad just aren't exciting. If you disagree, give me 1 win from each of them that made you sit on the edge of your seat. So to speak.

I liked Wlad-Peter I and Vitali vs Sanders, and Vitali vs Arreola.

[LacedUp]

So it's because they are not exciting is that right?

Well I can say the same about Ali. Nearly ALL his fights are stinkers. Jab, shoe shine combo, run away, run away.

Atleast Wladimir spends most of his time BOXING! Ali was the KING of clinching! ?If you take out the running and the clinching Ali only boxed about 30secs a riound!

In fact Ali would be disqualified today because his clinching is illegal (head down pushing etc).

Tyson was indeed more exciting. But that's no reason not to consider them ATG.

Honestly, they have perfected the art of the boxer-puncher style and the next successor at that level is likely to be another giant HW who becomes a technician like them and dominates in similar fashion. I think that is more likely than a future "super-Tyson".

Boxing has just transformed. Because ALL the HW's hit hard now. Featherfists are finished!

Oh no.. Oh no you did not just say that.

Just as I thought I could actually have a boxing discussion with you, you went on to troll again.