Vitali's legacy

[Jam Jars]

Wasn't David Haye HW champion? I think he was in his own mind

Title holder.

[Weltschmerz]

Perhaps it could be put another way.....

To say that Vitali, who broke many records in boxing is not an ATG or HOFer is absolutely ludicrous!

He fought all the available opponents. Only speculative duck is Hasim Rahman which can be assumed false on the merits he fought Lewis more than willingly. And he ducks David Haye today but that's only because he is becoming a has been now. His resume is as solid as any boxers, just because the names are not famous in America, those fighters are famed in their home countries. That sort of argument, which is the main one "Who has he fought?" Is the most biased and nationalist argument which can be made and amounts to BS!

He has never been knocked out or even knocked down in a professional boxing match!

He has never been behind on points in a fight.

He has never lost more than 2 rounds in a fight.

He has not a single clear loss on his record. Against both fighters he was ahead on points. Had Vitali not been cut, which was just unlucky btw, he would have won imo! And had Vitali not hurt his shoulder, he would have cruised to victory there too!

He faced the heaviest opponents on average than any other boxer in history and competes in the most power punching era! His opponents are even heftier than Wladimir's on average!

There is no member of the HOF/ATG that could really clearly beat prime Vitali imo except prime Lewis himself!

But no I see what you mean. He's a bum and should be denied entry! Wake up America!

Yeah, it pretty much sums it up. He will never be given due credit from his haters, who will just pull the 'weak resume' card endlessly, without further argumentation, as if it's a safe card.

[Tommo1]

Wladimir is the deserved champ sure just as was Lewis, Ali, Tyson.
I still consider Haye and Vitali HW champs though, they had a belt, they were a champ!

By that reasoning, the guys like Frazier and Norton shouldn't be champs because they didn't even WIN the damn title from their predecessors!

Vitali and Haye punched their way to victory for it atleast!

Wladimir aside, who the **** is gonna be able to beat up Haye or Vitali today??? You cannot point me to anyone who would be favourite.

[LacedUp]

Wasn't David Haye HW champion? I think he was in his own mind

Vitali is no more HW champ now than Haye was at the time.

[LacedUp]

Wladimir is the deserved champ sure just as was Lewis, Ali, Tyson.
I still consider Haye and Vitali HW champs though, they had a belt, they were a champ!

By that reasoning, the guys like Frazier and Norton shouldn't be champs because they didn't even WIN the damn title from their predecessors!

Vitali and Haye punched their way to victory for it atleast!

Wladimir aside, who the **** is gonna be able to beat up Haye or Vitali today??? You cannot point me to anyone who would be favourite.

Except that Frazier beat Ali to become the legitimate champ.

[Jam Jars]

Wladimir is the deserved champ sure just as was Lewis, Ali, Tyson.
I still consider Haye and Vitali HW champs though, they had a belt, they were a champ!

By that reasoning, the guys like Frazier and Norton shouldn't be champs because they didn't even WIN the damn title from their predecessors!

Vitali and Haye punched their way to victory for it atleast!

Wladimir aside, who the **** is gonna be able to beat up Haye or Vitali today??? You cannot point me to anyone who would be favourite.

If there was 4 titles Norton and 100 fighters since then would be champions too. You can't put someone that holds/held an abc title in the same category as the true champions.

[Tommo1]

Weltschmerz;

How the hell can it be a weak resume? That is almost actually ******ed when you think about it.

Look at the opponents of Louis and Ali who are rated at the top of such US lists, HOF and ATG.

MOST of Louis's opponents and HALF, "HALF!" of Ali's opponents Vitali would not be allowed to KO because they were not even real HW's, they are today CW's and light heavies! Vitali fought only real HW's entire record. Median opponent weight about 40lbs, FORTY! more than Ali's and god knows how much heftier than Louis's. And the taller opponents by FAR!

What about the records? Of the real HW opponents Vitali fought, he has beaten more opponents with quality records (that is to say, winning most of their fights and winning them against HW's) than Ali or Louis's opponents!

Of course the hater will like to claim that it is because fighters are protected now and don't fight each other which may be true to an extent but come on, where is the basis for such bias!

Vitali is a great, everyone knows who he is and what he's done who likes boxing and HW boxing. Nobody is forgetting the Klitschko's.

[LacedUp]

Yeah, it pretty much sums it up. He will never be given due credit from his haters, who will just pull the 'weak resume' card endlessly, without further argumentation, as if it's a safe card.

a weak resume is definitely a good reason for him not being an ATG. I think he's a HOFer. But top 20 of all times? No.

Look at the resume you posted. Let's go through it as you say there's no further "argumentation".

First best win: Herbie Hide for the WBO championship. First off, I will add that the WBO was not part of the real heavyweight championship at the time. It was not considered a true belt and nobody fought for it. Herbie Hide had beaten Tony Tucker for the vacant belt. Tucker was 2-3 going into the fight with Hide - losing to European level Akinwande in the process. Herbie was a good fighter, quick and slick. But hadn't a single top 15 win on his resume. Herbie Hide's best ranking was a #7 in 94. He wasn't even in the top 10 when Vitali beat him.

Purrity: Had 15 losses. Best win: Wladimir Klitschko who wasn't even ranked in the top 15 either. Was 1-1-2 going into the fight vs Vitali. Had previously been KOd and lost to every serious challenger he faced.

Sam Peter: Was coming off two struggles vs James Toney (a former middleweight), and had been dropped 3 times vs McCline. Had stopped #4 ranked Maskaev in his previous bout - and was ranked #2-3 by Ring and a little further down by boxrec. Decent win, but had already been exposed by Wlad.

Corrie Sanders: Best win: Wladimir Klitschko. Previous best win was Michael Sprott. Had also previously been KOd by esteemed fighters like Nate Tubbs, and was also KOd by Rahman, despite leading on the cards. His whole career was a mess and he was not in the best shape vs Vitali. However, this is quite clearly Vitali best and most credible win.

Chris Arreola: Undefeated prospect, ranked #10 at the time. Best win was James McCline a decent fighter. decent win for Vitali.

This is where it gets interesting..

He's going on to fight 1 former LHW and CW and 1 former CWs in Adamek, Gomez. Adamek, despite his best HW win being an already beaten Chris Arreola and an old Andrew Golota, was ranked number #4 at the time. I'll go ahead and say good win, despite Vitali being 7 inches taller and weighing 40 pounds more.

Solis, Briggs, Gomez, Sosnowski, Chisora, Charr weren't top 10 at the time of the fight.

2 good wins and 2 decent wins, and a helluva lot of less than good fighters on his resume. Is that enough to achieve the status of ATGness? I don't think so.

There were plenty of fighters that he didn't fight, for one reason or another, that would have severely enhanced his status. Instead, that ranking goes to his brother, who has contentiously fought the best of the division through the last 5-6 years.

[LacedUp]

Weltschmerz;

How the hell can it be a weak resume? That is almost actually ******ed when you think about it.

Look at the opponents of Louis and Ali who are rated at the top of such US lists, HOF and ATG.

MOST of Louis's opponents and HALF, "HALF!" of Ali's opponents Vitali would not be allowed to KO because they were not even real HW's, they are today CW's and light heavies! Vitali fought only real HW's entire record. Median opponent weight about 40lbs, FORTY! more than Ali's and god knows how much heftier than Louis's. And the taller opponents by FAR!

What about the records? Of the real HW opponents Vitali fought, he has beaten more opponents with quality records (that is to say, winning most of their fights and winning them against HW's) than Ali or Louis's opponents!

Of course the hater will like to claim that it is because fighters are protected now and don't fight each other which may be true to an extent but come on, where is the basis for such bias!

Vitali is a great, everyone knows who he is and what he's done who likes boxing and HW boxing. Nobody is forgetting the Klitschko's.

Dude just stop it you troll..

Vitali and Wladimir are fighting their fair share of CWs and LHWs as well. Need I to remind you of Byrd, Chambers, Gomez, Haye, Adamek, Hide, Mormeck etc etc-

[Weltschmerz]

Weltschmerz;

How the hell can it be a weak resume? That is almost actually ******ed when you think about it.

Look at the opponents of Louis and Ali who are rated at the top of such US lists, HOF and ATG.

MOST of Louis's opponents and HALF, "HALF!" of Ali's opponents Vitali would not be allowed to KO because they were not even real HW's, they are today CW's and light heavies! Vitali fought only real HW's entire record. Median opponent weight about 40lbs, FORTY! more than Ali's and god knows how much heftier than Louis's. And the taller opponents by FAR!

What about the records? Of the real HW opponents Vitali fought, he has beaten more opponents with quality records (that is to say, winning most of their fights and winning them against HW's) than Ali or Louis's opponents!

Of course the hater will like to claim that it is because fighters are protected now and don't fight each other which may be true to an extent but come on, where is the basis for such bias!

Vitali is a great, everyone knows who he is and what he's done who likes boxing and HW boxing. Nobody is forgetting the Klitschko's.

I don't get the anti-Klitschko bias either. As if the opponents of the past greats were so much superior to the modern era fighters. As you said, many of them wouldn't even be able to fight the Klitschko's today due to weight difference.

But it is exactly just what it is, I guess, people don't like that two super heavies from the Ukraine for more than a decade have been ruling the king division that historically belongs to America.

The Klitschko's will be more appreciated with time though, I feel, after they retire and people have more time to reflect on their true greatness and place in history.