Vitali's legacy

[billeau2]

Too many people combine everything the Klitschkos have done as if they are the same person.

Wlad is a dominant champion. Wlad is an ATG. Vitali is a paper champion during his brother's reign.

These guys fought the same comp, Vitali could beat Vlad because of his chin, what makes them so different? Neither guy has shown the ability to beat, outclass a world class fighter. Fat James Toney has about as many impressive heavyweight wins as Vlad and Toney fought Peter and Rahman when they were still live dogs. Frankly Corrie Sanders who was a tough decent fighter beat the supposed ATF Vlad....quickly.

Sorry but there are grounds to look at these guys as part of the same monoply on mediocraty that has choked off and controlled the lamest heavyweight division in years.

[joe strong]

herbie hide a good fighter? juan carlos gomez best wins are over 40 year old mccall twice & sanil sam. oh i can't forget he beat the great vlad virchis too. gomez was CW champ when the limit was lower & all he did was fight regional & european level fighters.

[joe strong]

We don't always see eye to eye, in fact we rarely ever do, but even you should be able to recognise the absurdity of this answer Tunney? You cannot be that bias and hypocritical. It is flying in the face of all reason, reality, consensus opinion, logic and anything resembling a sensible, intelligent, well thought out post.

You always talk about the Klistchkos as being intelligent, thoughtful, well mannered, polite people and that you look up to them. Well, try to follow their example here Tunney. Do you really think they would act this childish about basic boxing knowledge?

If you don't even get past decent contender status in today's era you are not worthy of being mentioned alongside multiple time, multiple division, Undisputed, long time, or HOF level opposition.

I'm not taking issue with whether Vitali is an ATG or not. In fact, im not even thinking about Vitali or Floyd for that matter. They don't come into it. That's not at all my point or focus here. I'm not arguing that one way or the other. I am arguing what you consider not just comparable fighters, but what you think are better fighters, as mentioned above. Don't call me racist or a Klistchko hater. I dont care about Vitali or Floyd. I'm concerned only with the people mentioned above in your post that you are comparing as fighters. Ok?

You used faded, coming off a loss and smaller.... I'm not even going to bother with the jail **** because that's moronic. He was a top five P4P, undefeated champion.

Ok, first:

Adamek and Gomez were champions only in divisions below heavyweight. Therefore, by your own criteria they are too small. They don't count.

Larry Donald was coming off a draw, a loss and one win over a club fighting bum that had five losses in a row coming into it. At least Judah had won the Undisputed world welterweight champion, beaten Spinks and Pineda before the loss with Baldomir and the Floyd fight. Donald doesn't count unless you rate a draw, loss and a 5 loss in a row journeyman win as better than wins over Spinks, Pineda, and winning the Undisputed championship of the world with one loss? Maybe you do, but Larry never even got past basic contender status. He couldn't even win a title eliminator despite three tries so he didn't even get to title contention status. He was nothing more than a literal fringe contender. Doesn't count.

Arreola, Solis and Johnson have never won a big fight or even won a paper title. Ever. They never even got past contender status. They don't count.

So far, we're left with Hide, Peter, Williams, and Sanders. I'm giving you Williams simply because he beat Potter with one arm and Tyson before Vitali. Hes never even won a title either though. The other three? Ok, they are good. Fine. You've got three, plus Danny Wiliams.

You still want to compare (not just compare but argue that theyre better wins!?!?) Sam Peters, Herbie Hide and Corrie Sanders to Shane Mosley, Oscar dele Hoya, Juan Maunel Marquez, Ricky Hatton, Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo, Genaro Hernandez, Zab Judah, Miguel Cotto, Sharmba Mitchell, and Arturo Gatti?

You're awesome Tunney.

peter is the only good fighter. williams was euro level at best, sanders only win is over wladimir but he was a journeyman with serious power in the travis walker mold. hide beat a washed up tony tucker for the WBO belt when it was not a world title. i don't consider 3 of the 4 guys above journeymen status but since sanders beat an HOFer in Wlad i give him credit. his only other solid opponents were rahman & vitali. he beat a shop worn bert cooper but that had little value. never seen a guy get more from a loss then vitali. wlad is a first ballot HOFer but vitali isn't getting a sniff...the list of guys he DIDN'T fight is greater then the list he did fight...

[FrankieBruno]

Nope

the man who ducked haye and got beat up by a overweight lennox lewis

[billeau2]

Nope

the man who ducked haye and got beat up by a overweight lennox lewis

That pretty much covers it....I would concede that Sanders was damn good....But damn if for watever reason Sander's came in overweight and out of shape! And he still ROCKED VITALI that first round!!

I mean upon any serious reflection.... the Klits just do not hold up.

[Capncrunch]

A real handful for anyone, but not an ATG at heavyweight. His resume and injuries held him back.

[Weltschmerz]

Old, old question. And a public poll would be interesting.

Who are the two greatest boxers Vitali has fought?

What were the outcomes of those two fights?

The question is old, but relevant to this day. He was winning the Byrd fight easily, and there should have been a Lewis rematch. Had Vitali not had his 4 yr lay off, not been injured vs Byrd, and had Lewis offered the rematch, he would most certainly have had a very good chance going down in history as an ATG.

[LacedUp]

The question is old, but relevant to this day. He was winning the Byrd fight easily, and there should have been a Lewis rematch. Had Vitali not had his 4 yr lay off, not been injured vs Byrd, and had Lewis offered the rematch, he would most certainly have had a very good chance going down in history as an ATG.

There's a lot of ifs and buts and had he in that. Fact is, Vitali got TKOd, lost another won and had a string of victories over mediocre opponents. So he's not an atg!

[Weltschmerz]

There's a lot of ifs and buts and had he in that. Fact is, Vitali got TKOd, lost another won and had a string of victories over mediocre opponents. So he's not an atg!

Well quite a few people believe he is, just look at the poll.

[LacedUp]

Well quite a few people believe he is, just look at the poll.

2/3 believe he's not. Which was one of your arguments earlier in the thread when Vitali was ahead.