Vitali's legacy

[ShamrockXpress]

Vitali is a HOFer, not an ATG. I dont see why people talk this achievement down. Not every fighter can be an ATG and not all fighters end up in the HOF. Vitali has some good wins, Hide, Hoffman, Bean, Donald, Johnson, sanders, Williams, Peter, Gomez, Arreola, Solis and adamek are good wins. But none of them are great and it doesn't matter how the fights ended, but when he fought the two best fighters of his career he come away with a L. His nut hungers need to accept this, his haters also need to accept that h2h he is an ATG. Unfortunately for Dr. Eisenfaust this isn't enough, vitali is one of my favirote fighters, has been since I seen him stop our very own Herbie, but unless he fights and stops his brother, he will never have the resume to match his ability.

[LacedUp]

Vitali is a HOFer, not an ATG. I dont see why people talk this achievement down. Not every fighter can be an ATG and not all fighters end up in the HOF. Vitali has some good wins, Hide, Hoffman, Bean, Donald, Johnson, sanders, Williams, Peter, Gomez, Arreola, Solis and adamek are good wins. But none of them are great and it doesn't matter how the fights ended, but when he fought the two best fighters of his career he come away with a L. His nut hungers need to accept this, his haters also need to accept that h2h he is an ATG. Unfortunately for Dr. Eisenfaust this isn't enough, vitali is one of my favirote fighters, has been since I seen him stop our very own Herbie, but unless he fights and stops his brother, he will never have the resume to match his ability.

First off, I agree.

Second off, a lot of Klitschko fans resort to h2h greatness. I'm just saying, when has greatness ever been defined by h2h across eras? And quite frankly, who cares? A lot of contenders and fringe title holders from this era or the last could have most likely given the likes of Dempsey, Tunney, Marciano etc a pretty good fight. But it doesn't make them any greater.

[ShamrockXpress]

First off, I agree.

Second off, a lot of Klitschko fans resort to h2h greatness. I'm just saying, when has greatness ever been defined by h2h across eras? And quite frankly, who cares? A lot of contenders and fringe title holders from this era or the last could have most likely given the likes of Dempsey, Tunney, Marciano etc a pretty good fight. But it doesn't make them any greater.

I no the h2h thing is played out, by bringing it up i mean, haters call vitali a bum because of his resume, he is far from it.

[Weltschmerz]

First off, I agree.

Second off, a lot of Klitschko fans resort to h2h greatness. I'm just saying, when has greatness ever been defined by h2h across eras? And quite frankly, who cares? A lot of contenders and fringe title holders from this era or the last could have most likely given the likes of Dempsey, Tunney, Marciano etc a pretty good fight. But it doesn't make them any greater.

Why doesn't it make them any greater? You're contradicting your own argument, saying present fighters would compete very well with past, while dismissing their abilities in the same sentence. Makes no sense.

[LacedUp]

Why doesn't it make them any greater? You're contradicting your own argument, saying present fighters would compete very well with past, while dismissing their abilities in the same sentence. Makes no sense.

No I said it doesn't make contenders from this era greater that they could probably hang with guys from the 50's due to the size difference, more scientific approach, better knowledge etc etc we have now.

Because Vitali would have probably beaten an atg like Jack Dempsey, it doesn't make Vitali greater than Dempsey. I'm not sure where I contradict myself here?

[LacedUp]

I no the h2h thing is played out, by bringing it up i mean, haters call vitali a bum because of his resume, he is far from it.

Vitali is clearly not a bum. Far from it. He was devastating at his peak - but his best years were taken away from him. He hasn't really beaten any ATGs or any future HOFs, so how could he be considered one himself? But he will go into the HOF but not based on h2h, because nobody cares about that. It has no relevance.

[Guest]

Many boxing followers discredit Vitali Klitschko's achievements in the ring, claiming his resume to be 'weak', i.e. he hasn't fought good enough opposition to be able to claim greatness.

Will Vitali go down in boxing history as an ATG in your opinion?

Old, old question. And a public poll would be interesting.

Who are the two greatest boxers Vitali has fought?

What were the outcomes of those two fights?

[BlueOrangutan]

No I said it doesn't make contenders from this era greater that they could probably hang with guys from the 50's due to the size difference, more scientific approach, better knowledge etc etc we have now.

Because Vitali would have probably beaten an atg like Jack Dempsey, it doesn't make Vitali greater than Dempsey. I'm not sure where I contradict myself here?

Then you must not know what the word "contradict" means.

You are saying that today's fighters are as good as the fighters of yesteryear, but this is a weak era. When you make one statement that invalidates or negates another statement you've made previously, you have contradicted yourself.

[LacedUp]

Then you must not know what the word "contradict" means.

You are saying that today's fighters are as good as the fighters of yesteryear, but this is a weak era. When you make one statement that invalidates or negates another statement you've made previously, you have contradicted yourself.

Alt?

Wtf are you on about? What statement?
This era is weak, because there's a massive difference in class between most of the fighters. Because Vitali would beat someone like Dempsey, does not make him greater in relation to his era and who he fought, and especially to other fighters in previous eras who fought the best of their times. It's simple, now stop trolling me alt.

[billeau2]

Making the classic anti-Klitschko mistake of mentioning the brothers in the same sentence as if they're one fighter.

Everybody knows Haye ducked Vitali, not vice versa.

And I can only laugh at your 'evolution' and 'weak division' remarks, those kind of arguments are so watered down by now that they're beyond laughable. Each era had their share of 'bums', and every single champion down history fought his share of them.

James Toney? Gimme a break. Toney was never a great HW, he's simply a smaller guy who just got fat and lazy over the years.

Arguments are true or false...laughable? As Jack Web used to say "just the facts." and the fact is that a man who is just north of 200 pounds was and still is a heavyweight.

You just agreed with me rearding Toney. Toney. a real fighter saw weakness and went up and took on Rahman and Peter because of how weak the division has been. Yes a smaller guy, fat and lazy and still able to fight Peter and not get racked like Vlad, future HOF Vlad.... did. If Peter had known how to throw a straight punch we would be having this conversation about both Klits.

The Klitschkos have a much greater history of ducking than Haye.