Are Mayweather and Cotto the Best That Eachother Have Faced?

[IronDanHamza]

not only is he campaigning at the weight he's one of the best out there today. agreed.

i'm not sure if i'm explaining my stance correctly.

but he doesnt have insurmountable physical advantages at WW when matched with marquez. some ww do // will.

mayweather proved that. he did have insurmountable physical advantages against marquez. skills had nothing to do with that win. i think floyd is a better boxer and counterpuncher and that he outboxed him, but that's not what won him the fight. of course he's going to outbox a guy who cant hurt him or get close enough to even hit him.

marquez punches were like mosquito bites.
they did not belong in the same ring.

tommy hearns would obliterate marquez. likewise, skills would have nothing to do with it. he's just too big.

hanging with manny pacquiao doesnt prove you to be a WW or to be able to hang with ww. wherever he campaigns, manny is still a much smaller man, not boiling down to 147 at a weigh in but rather blowing up to weigh even less.

I simply can't fathom how "Skill had nothing to do with it". I can't comprehend that. Skill blatantly had a lot to do with it. Skill, clearly, was the dominant aspect of why the fight was one sided.

How do we know Marquez punches were light? You, nor I, know that.

Tommy Hearns and Mayweather aren't the same size, nor close.

Again, I can't understand the idea of Marquez beating Pacquaio not proving he can hang at WW.

Marquez proved that he can PERFORM at WW. Which is something. Something that everyone including myself said he could not do.

He proved at WW he has power, speed, timing, etc. He literally proved it.

I don't agree with you on Pacquaio's size. I believe it's overstated how "small" he is. Whilst I agree he's not a natural WW or anywhere near that. He is a WW now.

And, Mayweather isn't a natural WW either nor close. Just like Pacquaio.

[NearHypnos]

Shane, for both...if you want to consider each fighter in their prime and go by name.

For Cotto it will be Shane, Floyd , and Pac at third.

For Floyd, it's also Shane, then Oscar, then JMM is somewhere up there. not sure Cotto is in the top 4 or 5 tbh.


Pac's is Shane too... But Pac's is basically like Floyds. With more controversy... He's not part of the "topic" so Let's leave it at that.

[4Corners]

he proved he can fight at WW provided it's not against floyd mayweather

and i dont want to sound bitter here, but he proved he doesnt belong in there with any decent WW when he fought floyd.


just imagine what ray leonard would do to marquez. he'd stop him.


no credit for floyd for fighting a blown up LW at WW. you guys might have to watch the fight again to be honest. i know its a **** fight, but sometimes we're tasked in life. he has no business being in the ring with floyd.

That's a very unfair comparison in Leonard-Marquez man.

I know Pac isn't a natural WW, neither is Floyd. Pac right now is at WW, and according to some of these "experts" on here, he's the best fighter on the planet, better than Floyd. So, while Marquez is in no way shape or form a WW, he did arguably beat Manny there, which proves he can beat very good fighters at WW. I'd favor him at WW over Berto, Ortiz, Alexander, anyday of the week right now, given he hasn't slipped even more since the Pac fight.

I'm just saying the whole "He trained better for the Pac fight" is the worst excuse in the world. And Floyd should get a little credit for absolutely dominating him. Not ATG win or huge credit, but a little credit.

Skill had EVERYTHING to do with Floyd whupped Marquez. It's not like Floyd pushed Marquez to the ropes and imposed his will on him. He boxed and toyed with JMM, tagging him at will and countering him at will. Floyd should get a little credit.

[ADP02]

Okay. So an even older Marquez arguably beat Manny Pacquiao at WW, Floyd dominates Marquez at WW over 2 years earlier, but in the end he gets NO CREDIT. Okay.

Sorry to say, that is how I feel about that one.

While Marquez will always give many fits, I believe that Roach had the wrong game plan for the now older Marquez. Roach said prior to the fight, we will fight smarter this time. Therefore, we got to see a close fought fight. Roach had Manny box a great boxer in Marquez. In a way, Manny did pretty good considering it was the wrong game plan.

Manny should have pressured and kept the tempo high .... Marquez would eventually get caught like the other fights but this time his legs may have given in ... all hypothetical of course .... but last week, Max Kellerman agreed with that when discussing Kirkland trying to box the boxer Molina.

[IronDanHamza]

he proved he can fight at WW provided it's not against floyd mayweather

and i dont want to sound bitter here, but he proved he doesnt belong in there with any decent WW when he fought floyd.


just imagine what ray leonard would do to marquez. he'd stop him.


no credit for floyd for fighting a blown up LW at WW. you guys might have to watch the fight again to be honest. i know its a **** fight, but sometimes we're tasked in life. he has no business being in the ring with floyd.

You keep using examples like Leonard and Hearns as if Mayweather is the same size as them. He isn't.

Mayweather isn't a natural WW either. He's not big for the weight, at all.

I don't think it's fair to say "He proved he can fight at WW just not against Mayweather"

So, because Mayweather is better than most WW's it means he doesn't get credit? That's just ******, IMO.

And, just as much as you're saying he "proved" he didn't belong in the ring with a decent WW against Mayweather, I think the opposite for what he did with Pacquaio.

If Marquez can beat Pacquaio and perform like he did that night I believe he can beat many current WW's.

Could he beat natural ATG WW's? Of course not.

Neither could Pacquaio or Mayweather, IMO.

But could he beat Andre Berto? You bet I think he can beat Andre Berto, easily too.

[turbotime]

Sorry to say, that is how I feel about that one.

While Marquez will always give many fits, I believe that Roach had the wrong game plan for the now older Marquez. Roach said prior to the fight, we will fight smarter this time. Therefore, we got to see a close fought fight. Roach had Manny box a great boxer in Marquez. In a way, Manny did pretty good considering it was the wrong game plan.

Manny should have pressured and kept the tempo high .... Marquez would eventually get caught like the other fights but this time his legs may have given in ... all hypothetical of course .... but last week, Max Kellerman agreed with that when discussing Kirkland trying to box the boxer Molina.

At you comparing Molina and Kirkland to Pacquiao/Marquez

[4Corners]

Sorry to say, that is how I feel about that one.

While Marquez will always give many fits, I believe that Roach had the wrong game plan for the now older Marquez. Roach said prior to the fight, we will fight smarter this time. Therefore, we got to see a close fought fight. Roach had Manny box a great boxer in Marquez. In a way, Manny did pretty good considering it was the wrong game plan.

Manny should have pressured and kept the tempo high .... Marquez would eventually get caught like the other fights but this time his legs may have given in ... all hypothetical of course .... but last week, Max Kellerman agreed with that when discussing Kirkland trying to box the boxer Molina.

It makes no sense then if that's how you feel.

You can't give a guy zero credit for dominating someone at a weight, when that someone just arguably beat the so called" best fighter in the world" at the same weight, when that someone was over 2 years older as well.

[HEZEKYHWH]

Mayweather (42-0)'s Top 3 Opponents -

Diego Corrales 33-0
Jose Luis Castillo 45-4-1
Sugar Shane Mosley 46-5

Miguel Cotto (37-2)'s Top 3 Opponents-

Manny Pacquiao 49-3-2
Antonio Margarito 36-5
Sugar Shane Mosley 44-4

What do you think? Some good fighters on their resumes.

Its gonna be easy work. Simply look at how Floyd fights now. Whats gonna hurt cotto is when he gets walked down, and his confidence leaves him.... This is an easy fight. Floyd knows what hes doing. He tells the public that Cotto is a great champion, but Cottos about to get smoked easy....

[ADP02]

At you comparing Molina and Kirkland to Pacquiao/Marquez

I just hope you didn't get my point because if you did then you should quit because you don't know Sh$t about boxing!

[New England]

I simply can't fathom how "Skill had nothing to do with it". I can't comprehend that. Skill blatantly had a lot to do with it. Skill, clearly, was the dominant aspect of why the fight was one sided.

How do we know Marquez punches were light? You, nor I, know that.

Tommy Hearns and Mayweather aren't the same size, nor close.

Again, I can't understand the idea of Marquez beating Pacquaio not proving he can hang at WW.

Marquez proved that he can PERFORM at WW. Which is something. Something that everyone including myself said he could not do.

He proved at WW he has power, speed, timing, etc. He literally proved it.

I don't agree with you on Pacquaio's size. I believe it's overstated how "small" he is. Whilst I agree he's not a natural WW or anywhere near that. He is a WW now.

And, Mayweather isn't a natural WW either nor close. Just like Pacquaio.

i think the main hang up is that i believe floyd mayweather posessed insurmountable advantages fighting marquez. they've got weight classes for a reason. eventually the weight becomes the chief deciding factor in a fight if the disparity between the two fighters is high enough.
for lack of a better term he was just too big.

i think the weight was the chief deciding factor in the marquez fight.


floyd is not a gigantic WW but he's still a good deal larger than manny pacquiao. five inches of reach. two or three inches of height and at least that at the shoulders.



i know i cant prove it in any meaningful sense, but i'm not alone in my assessment. those were light punches. they were of no real consequence. he was too far away, too small, coming from too low and easy to parry, unable to even put a dent in his guard. by the end he all but stopped throwing them because they weren't doing anything and there was nothing but counterpunching coming back.

he was too small. when you're in floyd's shoes and you posess insurmountable physical advantages you are not winning a fight on pure skill.

how much skill does it take to beat up a smaller guy?
he cant hurt you. he's a counterpuncher but he cant even reach you to counter. what does it really prove? again, i think floyd displayed great skills as usual, but they weren't the difference in the fight by any stretch. it was the size.