Who punches harder: Sven Ottke or Andre Ward?

[Check]

What I actually see from watching the fights: Ward isn't as good as Bute.

-Bute doesn't need to hold his opponents' arms
-Bute KOs fighters like Miranda, Ward decisions them
-Bute doesn't deliberately headbutt as part of his overall game plan
-Bute doesn't rub his head into his opponents' faces
-Bute has never worked with a convicted felon like Victor Conte

needing to cheat is weak

Those are just opinions. The headbutts to me just seem like a clash of styles. Last night there was what, one maybe two butts tops? As for the rubbing the head in the face or holding arms, that is borderline stuff and actually pretty savvy. I would never consider those tactics, pushing, hitting off the break, cheating. It's smart imo. Boxing is a sport but it also is a fight and you do what you have to do to win. As for Conte, meh. The guy got caught and is being watched like a hawk. I think it's rather wise to work with him now because he is good at what he does.

[The Hammer]

I think it's rather wise to work with him now because he is good at what he does.

No doubt about it, Conte is the absolute best at making PED use undetectable!

Donaire has become a beast since he started working with Victor.

[Bring It On]

The Ring is an American magazine, you naive simpleton!

And boxing is so insignificant in Europe that there isn't a single ranking available that I know of from a European magazine etc.

[Bring It On]

This is like arguing with a religious person though, "The earth was created 6000 years ago!" etc.

If you honestly think that the fighters fighting in Germany is as good as those fighting in the USA, and every ranking is part of a conspiracy, there is obviously no way for me to change your mind. Ignorance is bliss.

[The Hammer]

And boxing is so insignificant in Europe that there isn't a single ranking available that I know of from a European magazine etc.

That's why the Klitschkos sell out football stadiums?

Over half the people in Germany watch the Klitschkos' fights on TV.

You're an idiot. You believe because boxing is insignifigant in neutered Sweden, it's like that in countries like Poland and Germany.

[Bring It On]

BoxRec: computerized rankings
The Ring: rankings biased nationalistic Americans like Check

Which is more credible?

Let's do Boxrec then:

Top 10 P4P:

USA: 7
Germany: 2
Canada: 1


The #1 ranked in each division:

USA: 12
Germany: 2
Others: 3


So, Boxrec had an even BIGGER difference between Germany and USA then The Ring did.

[Bring It On]

That's why the Klitschkos sell out football stadiums?

Over half the people in Germany watch the Klitschkos' fights on TV.

You're an idiot. You believe because boxing is insignifigant in neutered Sweden, it's like that in countries like Poland and Germany.

So insignificant that there isn't even a single ranking available, even though the population is way bigger then in the US.

Floyd and Pac, especially Floyd, makes way more money then either Klitschko per fight if you wanna talk about selling.

How did you like the computerized ranking-stats btw?

[-Deal With It-]

BoxRec: computerized rankings
The Ring: rankings biased nationalistic Americans like Check

Which is more credible?

Let's do Boxrec then:

Top 10 P4P:

USA: 7
Germany: 2
Canada: 1


The #1 ranked in each division:

USA: 12
Germany: 2
Others: 3


So, Boxrec had an even BIGGER difference between Germany and USA then The Ring did.

[Allucard]

There is a HUGE different in leaving the US than leaving Germany. The fact that the best fighters fight in America is one reason. Also the crowds may be bigger but watched by a higher percentage, who cares. The reason why it's watched by more people is because they don't pay a single cent to watch it. Americans have to pay about 40 dollars a month, just to have HBO and SHO. There's a reason why Boxing is free in Germany and costs a lot in America, demand. There's also a reason why fighters want to fight in America, $$$. Ottke is a bum that never left Germany and never fought anyone. Ward just cleaned out a division. Show some damn respect.

Exactly. Show some respect ****s, goddammit! Wait... lol

[RichCCFC]

There are more sports than just boxing in the U.S., thus not as many fans.

Ward is a better more complete fighter than Ottke, the whole tournament PROVES he can beat just about any style there is.

In what way?

He hasn't even fought a boxer who can counter punch or is not flat footed.