Who punches harder: Sven Ottke or Andre Ward?

[Who are you?]

Even if they were really equal in every way, Ward would be better in some peoples' minds because he's an American, right?

There isn't much difference in leaving the US and leaving Germany, except in Germany the crowds are bigger and boxing is watched by a higher percentage of the population.

There were about 5000 fans at last nights' fight. In England, they would have had 20,000.

Agreed, boxing is dying in the USA and has its largest fanbase in non-US locales (ie Europe, parts of Asia, parts of Latin America).

US boxing stars can never sell anything. Hopkins, Ward, Dawson, Berto etc are all genuine non-draws who probably couldnt sell a 8,000 seat arena.

Bute routinely sells 15,000+ in Quebec
Klitschko does 50,000+ in Germany
Pacquiao could do 50,000 in Philippines
Kessler does 20,000 in Denmark

etc etc

American boxing is dying, and American boxers have no drawing power.

[chiguy91]

[Check]

The Ring is an American magazine, you naive simpleton!

In 2010 in their annual list, even before his fight with Wlad, The Ring had your beloved David Haye at #54 P4P. Even though I'm a Haye hater, I'll admit that was far too low and terribly biased.

I don't think it's very hard to name 50 fighters better than David Haye.

[Who are you?]

This is even worse then the BS you normally post.

I don't hate European boxers, but I don't love them by default just because they're from the same continent as I either.


Let's check where the elite fighters actually fight:

The Ring top 10 P4P-list:

USA: 7
Germany: 2
Japan: 1

Everybody in the top5 in the US.


The Ring Champions or the #1 ranked if there is no Champ:

USA: 9
Germany: 2
Other: 6

Dont EVER use RING Magazine as some sort of credible source.

RING Magazine is very biased, being owned by Golden Boy and unofficial partner with HBO. RING Magazine is a good voice on American boxing, but thats it.

RING Magazine tends to favour Americans, and to some extent that is understandable because it is owned by Golden Boy and based in US.

But dont ever use RING as a credible source.

RING is not credible, its owned by a promoter creating a conflict of interest, also its an OPINIONATED magazine.

It would be better and more credible on your part to quote BoxRec rankings, which are statistics-based and thus internationally and promoter-objective.

[Check]

Agreed, boxing is dying in the USA and has its largest fanbase in non-US locales (ie Europe, parts of Asia, parts of Latin America).

US boxing stars can never sell anything. Hopkins, Ward, Dawson, Berto etc are all genuine non-draws who probably couldnt sell a 8,000 seat arena.

Bute routinely sells 15,000+ in Quebec
Klitschko does 50,000+ in Germany
Pacquiao could do 50,000 in Philippines
Kessler does 20,000 in Denmark

etc etc

American boxing is dying, and American boxers have no drawing power.

American boxing is dying, yet they are churning out new and dominant champions by the bushel. Just this month Andre Ward solidified himself as the number 1 fighter at 168 and Lamont Peterson beat Amir Khan to claim the top sport at 140 lbs for America(Lamont and Tim). You are an ignorant ***.

[Check]

Dont EVER use RING Magazine as some sort of credible source.

RING Magazine is very biased, being owned by Golden Boy and unofficial partner with HBO. RING Magazine is a good voice on American boxing, but thats it.

RING Magazine tends to favour Americans, and to some extent that is understandable because it is owned by Golden Boy and based in US.

But dont ever use RING as a credible source.

RING is not credible, its owned by a promoter creating a conflict of interest, also its an OPINIONATED magazine.

It would be better and more credible on your part to quote BoxRec rankings, which are statistics-based and thus internationally and promoter-objective.

Boxrec is the WORST place to use as a source. For instance k9 is a top 20 fighter in the WORLD according to their rankings. If you want to play that game though they have America having 10 of the top 25 fighters in the world and it would be 11 once Dirrel wins in a few weeks. 11 of the top 25 fighters from one nation. Yeah, America is dying in boxing

[Who are you?]

Boxrec is the WORST place to use as a source. For instance k9 is a top 20 fighter in the WORLD according to their rankings. If you want to play that game though they have America having 10 of the top 25 fighters in the world and it would be 11 once Dirrel wins in a few weeks. 11 of the top 25 fighters from one nation. Yeah, America is dying in boxing

Well, the best metric to measure achievement is obviously titles held.

However, in a P4P sense, or expanded rankings section, Id much prefer BoxRec over RING Magazine. BoxRec is based on an objective, points based system and is thus void of international or promoter bias.

RING Magazine clearly favours the american boxing scene, and tends to rank Golden Boy fighters better tahn others. Its a conflict of interest.

Im not saying BoxRec rankings are perfect, Im just saying that:

BoxRec > RING Magazine in terms of credibility, its essentially a statistics based system VS a biased, promoter owned magazine.

[Who are you?]

I don't think it's very hard to name 50 fighters better than David Haye.

Lets not forget Haye is a former undisputed champion. Thats a very hard feat to accomplish. Haye was a genuine top20 P4P before his fight with Wlad.

Haye is a very talented guy who accomplished more at Cruiser than any fighter in recent history. Haye will be remembered as one of the most talented CWs of alltime.

In fact, had Haye stayed at cruiserweight, no doubt hed still be ruling it today.

Haye is a very talented fighter.

Wlad is a top5 P4P
Haye, before his retirement was a sure top20 P4P

[DiegoFuego]

Sven Ottke and Andre Ward

These two fighters have a lot in common:

-amateur achievements
-refuse to leave their home country as pros
-undefeated
-excellent defensive skills
-light punchers: they win decisions rather than stop their opponents
-Sven had a home ref against Reid & Andre had a home ref against Kessler

Who is the harder puncher? They seem about the same to me.

You sad little man

[Check]

Well, the best metric to measure achievement is obviously titles held.

However, in a P4P sense, or expanded rankings section, Id much prefer BoxRec over RING Magazine. BoxRec is based on an objective, points based system and is thus void of international or promoter bias.

RING Magazine clearly favours the american boxing scene, and tends to rank Golden Boy fighters better tahn others. Its a conflict of interest.

Im not saying BoxRec rankings are perfect, Im just saying that:

BoxRec > RING Magazine in terms of credibility, its essentially a statistics based system VS a biased, promoter owned magazine.

That's fine but it completely contradicts your statement about American boxing "dying". You are putting stock into Boxrec but then completely trash the system by saying American boxing isn't doing well. So which is it? You can't have nearly half of the best fighters in the world and be dying at the same time. Stop trolling.