more impressive roy goin from 154 to hw..or manny going from fly weight to ww

[ShrinkingMan]

RJJ no doubt. Too bad he doesn't speak crappy english and play dumb though or else everyone would love him and he would be P4P 1 of all time.

what does speaking english have to do with anything?

[Mr. Fantastic]

How many times did RJJ defend his heavyweight title?

How many times did pac defend his 150 lbs title?

I say it's a tie.

THIS!!.....

Poll says up to 147.

[Khalid X]

So basically we are comparing Roy fighting Ruiz to Manny fighting Cotto, Margarito and possible Mayweather?

I say this because Roy wasnt an elite 154, whereas Mannh was an elite Flyweight. The, up until his Toney fight, the consensus was that outside of Hopkins, Roy fought weak opposition (which is why most felt Toney had the edge in experience). Now compare that to Manny, a guy who fought alot of top tier guys before facing Barrera and its not even close IMO.

Roy was only elite at three divisions (160,168,175) and beat a weak belt holder in Ruiz at HW.

Manny was elite at (112, 122, 126, 130, 135, 140, and 147) that's 7 classe in which Manny was either the absolute best fighter or at worse top 3. When Roy won the HW strap was he considered the best HW? What about top 5? I could easily name 7 HW who were better than him at that time (Lewis, both Klits, Grant, Tua, Tyson, Rahman). When Manny beat Cotto people automatically labeled ever other WW fight after that a cherry pick because people realize how much better Pacquiao was compared to the other fighters in that division.

Manny Pacquiao and it's not even close.......

Btw I'm not even bringing up the comp fought in between but Manny wins wider margin if we took it there.

[jjbj2]

So basically we are comparing Roy fighting Ruiz to Manny fighting Cotto, Margarito and possible Mayweather?

I say this because Roy wasnt an elite 154, whereas Mannh was an elite Flyweight. The, up until his Toney fight, the consensus was that outside of Hopkins, Roy fought weak opposition (which is why most felt Toney had the edge in experience). Now compare that to Manny, a guy who fought alot of top tier guys before facing Barrera and its not even close IMO.

Roy was only elite at three divisions (160,168,175) and beat a weak belt holder in Ruiz at HW.

Manny was elite at (112, 122, 126, 130, 135, 140, and 147) that's 7 classe in which Manny was either the absolute best fighter or at worse top 3. When Roy won the HW strap was he considered the best HW? What about top 5? I could easily name 7 HW who were better than him at that time (Lewis, both Klits, Grant, Tua, Tyson, Rahman). When Manny beat Cotto people automatically labeled ever other WW fight after that a cherry pick because people realize how much better Pacquiao was compared to the other fighters in that division.

Manny Pacquiao and it's not even close.......

Btw I'm not even bringing up the comp fought in between but Manny wins wider margin if we took it there.

How can Manny be considered elite at Flyweight? Granted he won the belt against a legitimate belt holder then this equivalent to Roy Jones winning the Heavyweight belt. The only difference is one defended longer and the other didn't. I mean who did Manny beat at an elite level in the Flyweight division besides the former belt holder?

I honestly believe that Manny Pacquiao can be considered an elite fighter was when he beat Barrera at the Featherweight. Next is at the Super Featherweight divisions where he eliminated Marquez, Erik Morales, and Marco Antonio Barrera. And then at the Welterweight division, he can be considered elite level by eliminating Cotto, Clottey, and Mosley all of them were considered Top 5 Welterweights of 2008.

I still see what you mean. Now can someone tell me what division Roy Jones Jr. is considered elite because of his oppositions made him the ELITE.

Did he fight anyone who was a popular light heavyweight and a champion caliber fighter?

[puga]

How can Manny be considered elite at Flyweight? Granted he won the belt against a legitimate belt holder then this equivalent to Roy Jones winning the Heavyweight belt. The only difference is one defended longer and the other didn't. I mean who did Manny beat at an elite level in the Flyweight division besides the former belt holder?

I honestly believe that Manny Pacquiao can be considered an elite fighter was when he beat Barrera at the Featherweight. Next is at the Super Featherweight divisions where he eliminated Marquez, Erik Morales, and Marco Antonio Barrera. And then at the Welterweight division, he can be considered elite level by eliminating Cotto, Clottey, and Mosley all of them were considered Top 5 Welterweights of 2008.

I still see what you mean. Now can someone tell me what division Roy Jones Jr. is considered elite because of his oppositions made him the ELITE.

Did he fight anyone who was a popular light heavyweight and a champion caliber fighter?

how can pac be the man at flyweight?...maybe coz he beat the man who beat the man?......learn your **** man,,start off with what 'lineal" means..ok?....lol

[Reloaded]

So basically we are comparing Roy fighting Ruiz to Manny fighting Cotto, Margarito and possible Mayweather?

I say this because Roy wasnt an elite 154, whereas Mannh was an elite Flyweight. The, up until his Toney fight, the consensus was that outside of Hopkins, Roy fought weak opposition (which is why most felt Toney had the edge in experience). Now compare that to Manny, a guy who fought alot of top tier guys before facing Barrera and its not even close IMO.

Roy was only elite at three divisions (160,168,175) and beat a weak belt holder in Ruiz at HW.

Manny was elite at (112, 122, 126, 130, 135, 140, and 147) that's 7 classe in which Manny was either the absolute best fighter or at worse top 3. When Roy won the HW strap was he considered the best HW? What about top 5? I could easily name 7 HW who were better than him at that time (Lewis, both Klits, Grant, Tua, Tyson, Rahman). When Manny beat Cotto people automatically labeled ever other WW fight after that a cherry pick because people realize how much better Pacquiao was compared to the other fighters in that division.

Manny Pacquiao and it's not even close.......

Btw I'm not even bringing up the comp fought in between but Manny wins wider margin if we took it there.

Then why does Manny need to force a CW if he is so much better , how do you justify lets call it Mannys fair trading , in that Manny forced WW Cotto to 145 and now its LW JMM to 144 ,,,

Something smell a bit fishy to you , it should it reeks to high heaven !!

[pwnthee]

it was probably stated, but roy weighed 193 fully clothed with weights on, wasn't a true heavyweight by any stretch. it's the reason they jacked it up to 200 lbs. and lol @ "john ruiz was legit." ruiz was horrible, mediocre on his best day. that isn't to knock him, just the truth. it's still impressive that jones beat him, definitely. and prime jones was better than pacquiao.

but pac vs. dlh, marg, cotto, mosley, even clottey = more impressive than john ruiz.

given everything, i find pac's rise more impressive though. jones had the advantages that pac didn't and SHOULD have had the gold medal in the seoul olympics. jones got to cherry pick opponents more than pac did, that can't be denied. where's benn, eubank, collins, or jackson [even give Jones a pass on DM] on Jones' resume? Maybe Jones would've beat them all, but the point is he didn't fight them. Pac has more big names on his resume imo.

Jones was given the chance to fight #1 P4P Toney, one of the rare times where we got to see #1 vs. #2 P4P. Too bad Floyd won't let us see it again.

It wouldn't shock the ever living hell out of me if we eventually saw Jones vs. Pacquiao.

[RayLeonard82]

Lennox Lewis was 6-5 250 pounds, while Roy was 5-11 199

Pacquiao has never faced anyone with that type of advantage so asking Roy to do so is unfair. Had Roy fought and beat Lewis he would go down as the best ever...no doubt

Realistically his life would have ended had he taken that fight

[Khalid X]

How can Manny be considered elite at Flyweight? Granted he won the belt against a legitimate belt holder then this equivalent to Roy Jones winning the Heavyweight belt. The only difference is one defended longer and the other didn't. I mean who did Manny beat at an elite level in the Flyweight division besides the former belt holder?

I honestly believe that Manny Pacquiao can be considered an elite fighter was when he beat Barrera at the Featherweight. Next is at the Super Featherweight divisions where he eliminated Marquez, Erik Morales, and Marco Antonio Barrera. And then at the Welterweight division, he can be considered elite level by eliminating Cotto, Clottey, and Mosley all of them were considered Top 5 Welterweights of 2008.

I still see what you mean. Now can someone tell me what division Roy Jones Jr. is considered elite because of his oppositions made him the ELITE.

Did he fight anyone who was a popular light heavyweight and a champion caliber fighter?

I have always followed the lower weight class's because Johnny Tapia and Erik Morales were two of my favorite fighters around that time.

With that said, I remember when Singsurat KO'd Manny and KO magazine (or one of those major magazines at the time) had an article claiming that was the most brutal KO's of the year and a candidate for upset of the year.

The reason being was because they said he did it against not only one of the best flyweights but a guy who was one of the best fighters 122 and below.

It's hard to find those online, so sorry for me not having a link, but all throughout 98-99 Manny was referred to by alot of writers and major magazines as an elite Flyweight. Again I followed those classes during that time, still do, so that is why I said that.

[-Spinal-]

So basically we are comparing Roy fighting Ruiz to Manny fighting Cotto, Margarito and possible Mayweather?

I say this because Roy wasnt an elite 154, whereas Mannh was an elite Flyweight. The, up until his Toney fight, the consensus was that outside of Hopkins, Roy fought weak opposition (which is why most felt Toney had the edge in experience). Now compare that to Manny, a guy who fought alot of top tier guys before facing Barrera and its not even close IMO.

Roy was only elite at three divisions (160,168,175) and beat a weak belt holder in Ruiz at HW.

Manny was elite at (112, 122, 126, 130, 135, 140, and 147) that's 7 classe in which Manny was either the absolute best fighter or at worse top 3. When Roy won the HW strap was he considered the best HW? What about top 5? I could easily name 7 HW who were better than him at that time (Lewis, both Klits, Grant, Tua, Tyson, Rahman). When Manny beat Cotto people automatically labeled ever other WW fight after that a cherry pick because people realize how much better Pacquiao was compared to the other fighters in that division.

Manny Pacquiao and it's not even close.......

Btw I'm not even bringing up the comp fought in between but Manny wins wider margin if we took it there.

I love how you just mention John Ruiz as Roy's lone accomplishment.

Forget Bernard Hopkins, forget James Toney, forget Mike McCallum, forget Antonio Tarver, Virgil Hill, and since you want to mention Cotto i'll mention Jeff Lacy for Jones.