Interesting video on drug test issue

[mikemurni]

So Mayweather being a prick outside the ring is what prevented Pacquiao to agree to random testing? Pacquiao didn't fight Cotto at '47. Pacquiao didn't fight Berto at '47. Pacquiao didn't face Mosley at '47. Pacquiao didn't/couldn't face Margarito at '47. Now that Margarito is at '54, they pit them at '50. Pacquiao didn't face Bradley, Maidana,or Alexander at '40. When Pacquiao was at '35 he avoided Casmayor, Campbell, Juan Diaz, or Joan Guzman....? Who, that's the best, has he faced?


You moron, the disagreement between the blood testing was what prevented the fight from getting made. Mayweather’s persona had more to do with how the public/media perception of him regarding his stance of “cleaning up the sport”.

How many fights did Pac have at 135, 140, 147? If you total them up it will be just 6 if you include his next fight against Margarito. That’s 6 fights in 3 weight classes in a span of 24 months. How the hell would he have chance to fight all those fighters in that list. Do you expect him to fight every month?

Pac had one fight at 135 if you want him to fault for not fighting a top LW, then so be it.

But Pac fought Hatton who was ranked #8 in the P4P list. Not to mention the best fighter in that division. Bradley was not even a recognize as the top LWW since he hasn’t solidified it yet. He became one of the top players when he beat Holt, and Pac beat Hatton.
Cotto was ranked in the P4P list as well when Pac fought him. Only Pac, Mosley, Cotto and Floyd were the only WW in that list. The Pac-Cotto fight was a WW fight irregardess if it’s on a catchweight.
Berto hasn’t fought a legitimate contender at WW and its still unproven, Clottey’s resume at WW was far more better than Berto. Not to mention that Berto himself was not available for a fight.

Quote: If speculation was raised then and testing carried out, Roger would be dead on with his predictions (minus Hatton, but then again, you make personal statements, so you could be lying, typical Pac material though).
Freddie Roach = Steroids.
http://www.steroidsources.com/Steroi...tive-for-peds/


So in other words, all you have is speculation. So that’s your argument, speculation with no proof. Because there was no mention in that article that Freddie was even aware when Toney was taking steroids. So who is being emotional now? Since you believe this speculations are true then your view is already skewed based on your emotional attachment on the issue. Obviously you are emotionally attached to Floyd, so you prefer to believe the speculation as true.

Ariza started out with Corrales, was booted from their camp, then went to Morales for a fight and they got rid of him there since Morales complained about his conditioning and claimed that his liver was hurting. Then he was booted from Manfredy's camp [and eventually boxing] because they also didn't like the methods he was using. Not to mention, he uses a very abnormal method for Pacquiao.

Somehow I knew you are goin to mention this. This one has already been argued at ******** boxing, and most of the posters there find it to be a joke.

So what if Ariza was booted out of Manfredy and Morales camp. It just proves that some methods just aren't suited to some athletes. Just like world class trainers in various sports are not always suited to training certain athletes, certain good training methods are not suited for everyone. It does not prove ****…

Jake LaMotta admitted to taking a dive in 1947 against Billy Fox to gain a later title shot. Jack Dempsey was involved in a fixed fight against Fireman Jim Flynn whom he lost by KO in the 1st. Some believe Ali-Liston II was fixed. Jack Johnson said his fight with Willard was fixed.

You’re mentioning fights that took place in the 40’s when we both know that fighters now have limited options because of few television dates with Showtime, HBO, ESPN. Throwing fights would hurt a fighter more considering a loss would place him back at the end of the line for those TV dates. Are you ****in’ kidding me.
And since we are talkin’ about Marg-Pac, why the hell would Margarito throw that fight when we both know that this might be his last chance of redemption in terms of the public and media perception. It will also guarantee him more money fights in the future if he wins.

Look at Funeka-Guzman I, that was a fix. Nearly any GBP contest is a fix in their favor. Malignaggi-Diaz I. Fixed fights can come by actual fight stoppages, fighters taking dives, or bribery [scorecards]. You act like none of this happens in boxing on the elite level when it clearly has. You're just too close minded to think that it's not possible.

Don’t be ridiculous those were bad decision, not fixed fights. If you really are a boxing fan you wouldn’t even remotely think of something like that.



Again, your highlighting name calling, brick.

First a joke, now name-calling.. You keep flip flopping every opinion you have on a quote just to favor your argument.

Huh, again? You are aware of the 33 fights Corrales had at '30, 27 were KO's. It's funny how ridiculous your statement is because Mayweather didn't say, "let's fight at '28." Great job sound ignorant, brick


So now you get your panties up when I turn the tables against Floyd’s. And Corrales being dehydrated is possible when we both know that this was discussed in this forum. Although you have a good argument to say that he wasn’t because Corrales didn’t fight like a dehydrated fighter.

[mikemurni]

Huh? Huh? Again... all of that is just your play-by-play analysis. Fact of the matter is that weight plays a major role. If you've never participated in boxing and have had to stick to a regimen, you wouldn't understand what a difference 1-2 lbs. makes.



Actually I would have respected you more had you given a play by play analysis. Then we would have a real boxing discussion because we are actually talkin’ about fights. Had you given a play by play analysis then we would have found out if Cotto was indeed dehydrated. But then again what do you expect from a ***** when all you talk about are drug testing and weight issues.
Because in my view, Cotto started the fight going toe to toe with Pac, and he was doin’ it behind the jab while at the same time being able to keep up with Pac’s movement. A dehydrated fighter would not have done that.
Cotto himself did not attribute his lost to the extra 1 lb? So why would you start making excuses for him.

Gary Russell Jr. had his hopes of competing in Beijing because he passed out before he could make it to the scales to weigh-in. Nate Campbell looked awful against Ali Funeka because he failed to make the '35 lb. limit weighing in at '37. It's hard for the body to function at a certain point in the fight just because of the stress and energy that's exerted just to beat the scales. Weights mean a lot, and because Cotto looked bad at '46 against Clottey, it made sense to get him to '45 for Pacquiao. Game, set, and match.

So in your view, it was not because Funeka’s reach and long jabs as the reason why Campbell was getting hit in that fight. So everything is attributed to him losing weight. Funeka had nothing to do on why the fight was close.

Cotto looked bad against Clottey because he was dehydrated at 146? Really, thats your argument. Because if I recall it was Clottey who gassed out in the later rounds. Cotto rallied to win that fight.. if he was dehydrated then he wouldn't have had enough in the tank in the later rounds to win a close decision fight. He also went through that fight with a nasty cut.

What you are doin' is making excuses, moron..


We don't know what Mosley would look like at '43 because he never fought at '40. We can't even say Pacquiao would take flack for fighting at '43... or '40, because Pacquiao's team wouldn't sign him to take that fight, especially since Mosley looked so good in beating Margarito and because he was begging day after day to whomever would listen to give him a fight with Pacquiao. Again, you use hypothetical reasoning and personal opinions without the facts
Ok, you want to play that game. First, you acknowledge Pac’s fight against Cotto at 145. Or better yet, acknowledge the Pac’s victory of Dela Hoya at 147. Remember Dela Hoya-Pac was viewed as mismatch, so if we follow your thought then Pac (which he really is) was justified in taking that fight at 147 lb.
As soon as you admit that you were wrong in criticizing those catchweight fights of Pac against Cotto and Dela Hoya, then I will submit to your argument.

Pacquiao didn't move three weight classes to fight DLH. He moved two, from lightweight to welterweight. You know else did that? Shane Mosley made that jump to fight DLH years prior to... you know... when DLH was still alive. You know what else? Mosley admitted that he's used designer 'roids in the past. Coincidence?

Moron, how many fights did Pac had at lightweight? Answer that and compare it with the number of years that Mosley campaigned at LW, and see if your comparison even equates.
You were calling Mosley great in moving 2 weight classes to fight Oscar, and yet you can’t even acknowledge the fact that Pac did the same. Then you dare to trash him for not moving 3 weight classes to ’54 to fight Dela Hoya.

Flyweight to super bantamweight is three weight classes by the way....? Pacquiao moved from Flyweight to Jr. lightweight, that's five weight classes and very understandable. During that time his KO percentage was great, just stellar, but he was slowing down.

He was slowing down?? Prove it..

Now you're talking four more weight classes at a time when Pacquiao was thought to be wrapping up a great career. His KO percentage is higher than ever and he's not just beating bigger guys, but it's not close. You didn't follow him from flyweight up because Pacquiao didn't start gaining attention, in the boxing world, until '22. You just jumped on in '07, along with every Pac fan
Maybe it’s because he is just a great fighter that is tutored by a great trainer? Didthat even cross your mind?
I didn’t follow him when he was at flyweight? Alright prove first that you did then we can talk. And what’s your point?

Huh? You mean like this: "Clottey had a chance to win the fight but step on the break pedal (either he lost steam, he thought the fight was in the bag, or maybe he just simply got hurt) in the end. It was his fault that he lost that fight."
So what’s wrong with that statement?

I'm not a fan of Pacquaio. Like I said, his career pre-'35 is legit. It's just how he's handled a single stipulation and the time line of camp changes and past connections to 'roid usage that lead me to speculate. It's just ignorant that the moment somebody speculates Pacquiao could be using, they're 'insert name here' and "don't know s*** about boxing", so you say.

Haven't given Pacquiao a backhanded compliment. I stated his legacy was secured before '30 and his recent accomplishments are tainted.

You are not a Pacquiao fan, and yet you followed his career when he was flyweight. Pac was a relatively unknown fighter in the US. If you were not a fan then how could you follow his career at flyweight?

But really it’s ok if you are not. I am not forcing you to be one. Just dont shove that I think Pac is on steroids to our throats as well

[deejd]

Did I say that it was Floyd’s fault that the fight didn’t take place years ago.

That was a great video except that you forgot to mention that Shane was setting up a fight with Vargas at ‘54. Sure, Vargas was never the same after the back problems. But he was still a bigger name than May which translate to more $$$ for Mosley.

If you want to be on Floyd’s side of this issue of ducking, then you have to go back when Floyd wanted to fight Mosley at LW. However Floyd was a low risk/high reward for Mosley.

That incident with Floyd and Mosley in 2009 though was embarrassing for Floyd considering that both were already the top draws. But that fight did happened so it’s forgivable. It’s just unfortunate that it took a failed negotiation of the “fight of the century”, and an earthquake to seal that deal.

That interview of Mosley's "toothache" was after his 6th round KO of Vargas in the rematch. Your idiocy never fails. "Low risk/High reward": thank you for admitting that you're a parrot...?

Most ignorant quote I've seen on this whole boxingscene message board:

"Sure, Vargas was never the same after the back problems. But he was still a bigger name than May which translate to more $$$ for Mosley. "

Cong****.

So both were top draws? Then why would Pacquiao reject a fight from Mosley, not once but twice, months before that Mosley jumping in the ring occurred? How come Mosley, who actually went by Wild Card gym, was told "No, we won't fight you?" Talk about embarrassing. Mosley wasn't solely after Mayweather, he tried his absolute hardest to fight Pacquiao and they simply didn't fight him. Mayweather did, and won easily and impressively.

This is exactly what I mean. You don't use facts. Williams was signed on in the fall to fight Clottey around December of last year and then Clottey pulled out after. The sad part is that he talked all of that garbage a few weeks prior to signing and then he was the one to back out. Clottey has never delivered when it counted. Don't even try putting Clottey remotely near Mosley, that guy will pale in comparison.

I didn’t say that Clottey was a greater fighter than Mosley. I said that he was a live opponent for any WW fighter in that division. Margarito, Cotto, Baldomir were all loses that Clottey could have won. Clottey’s ability of finding ways of losing a fight (broken hand, heavy cut) is what kept him from being in the same level as the elites. He was a legitimate ranked WW fighter which Pac took in his second fight as a WW.

Good job avoiding the fact the you were wrong about your statement, 'PWill was afraid of Clottey.' Looks like you have Pacquiao qualities in ya. You don't use facts, point blank. Thanks for agreeing with my statement that Clottey never delivers though, Brick Parrot.

So in other words, you got owned. You provided me materials from all different sources except from the guy who actually made that statement, which means that those materials of yours are garbage.

And your chronology svcks, moron. The weight, penalty, ring size, purse, OST were all presented and discussed at the same time in a close door session meeting between promoters.All terms except the venue, and OST were all agreed to at the same time. The only clear chronology that can be documented was the drug testing because Promoters were already negotiating through the media. So you are lying again..

Huh? Different sources all stating the same things, bricks nowadays. Again, you never provide facts. I followed each article from the night of the Cotto fight, all the way through to it's collapse. OST came first.... everything Pacquiao wanted came after. Mayweather agreed to everything, and when Mayweather did, the excuses started flooding, it's that simple. Brick comprehend?

So what? The training camp for both fighters hasn’t even started. What prep work does Floyd need to do when there was still no indication that the fight would even get made.

Okay, so you're saying, fighters shouldn't, or can't, train in between fights? So somebody, who fights for a living, that's what they do, shouldn't or can't? Are you suggesting they all should just go to the pub, get big, and struggle to lose the weight like Ricky Hatton? Brick strikes again.

So earlier it was a “joke”, then now its “name-calling”. Do yourself a favor and stop quoting because you are just embarrassing yourself.

Huh?

[B]Moron, Cotto was a ****ing give away since he was the most likely opponent for Pac after Hatton since both Pac and Cotto are from Top Rank.

Dela Hoya cherrypicked Pac to be his next opponent. Roach, Pac, or anyone from Team Pac was not in a position to impose a fight with Dela Hoya. When Dela Hoya said I want Pac, that’s when Roach started giving interviews about the fight. No one was going to disagree with him since no one would turn down a fight against De La Hoya.

Roach started granting interviews when Arum and Team Pac selected Clottey as his next opponent. So there another lie..

It's one thing to get Cotto at '47, in-house, no debate. '45 and for the title, that has nothing to do with in-house, brick. That's the point. Also, Roach didn't have to oblige DLH. The problem here is that Roach didn't want the fight at '54 and wanted DLH to go down to '47 where he hadn't been in six years. Getting the point yet, brick? Speaking of lies, too bad Arum was talking about putting Pacquiao in with Yuri Foreman or Paul Malignaggi as a replacement for March 13th:

http://msn.foxsports.com/boxing/stor...er-dead-122409

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010...acquiao-fight/

Hehehe..Dude, you’re replies are starting to be like Floyd because you’re cherrypicking your way to an argument. You are now back to quoting one line of a pharagraph from my post instead of arguing it in its entire context. You also prefer to argue trivial stuff that is not even related to our original topic.

You also conveniently forgot to reply my last post on issues

a.The penalty clause.

Absurd. Mayweather has never missed '47. What fight has Mayweather failed to make 147 lbs? [Mayweather still agreed anyway]

9:00-9:52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTkgI7tS9CE

"We have a stiff penalty, uhh, $30,000 a pound for every pound over if we don't make it."

Gee, if that's a stiff penalty I can't imagine what a $10 million penalty would be...?

The fight isn't at '44, if it was, then requesting that penalty is would make sense. It wasn't made at '44 though, Pacquiao requested the fight at '47. Now you have to find me a fight where Mayweather has not made the '47 lb. limit. If you can, than I find the penalty reasonable, but if you can't find a single fight where Mayweather has contractually agreed to fight at '47 and missed that weight, that penalty is unreasonable. Si, Brick.

b. Mayweather/Mosley blood testing

Random

c. Floyd’s change of stance of 0-14-0

FM - 0
MP - 30
FM - 14
MP - 24
FM - 0
MP - 18
MP - 14
MP - 7
FM - 0

d. Mosley/Mayweather weight at 147 instead of ‘54

They both were already training for fights at '47, not to mention Mosley came back to the '47 division specifcally to fight Mayweather, brick, for the third time. Understand it, grasp it, realize it, comprehend it.

But it’s cool if you won’t. Let’s just attribute the non-response to you getting “pawned” while succumbing in your own crap.

Huh? You're ignorant. 100% brick through and through.

I conveniently responded to all four of those in my previous post, but chances are, you're to dumbfounded to accept the facts, you don't want to accept the facts (which I assume, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here because I truly do hope that you're not as ignorant as you make yourself out to be when you post), or sadly, both.

[mikemurni]

I conveniently responded to all four of those in my previous post, but chances are, you're to dumbfounded to accept the facts, you don't want to accept the facts (which I assume, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here because I truly do hope that you're not as ignorant as you make yourself out to be when you post), or sadly, both.

No you did not. look at my post #274 and then compare that with your response at post #277. And then ask yourself who was really dumbfounded...

By the way continue with your post, I will answer it tomorrow.

[deejd]

You moron, the disagreement between the blood testing was what prevented the fight from getting made. Mayweather’s persona had more to do with how the public/media perception of him regarding his stance of “cleaning up the sport”.

How many fights did Pac have at 135, 140, 147? If you total them up it will be just 6 if you include his next fight against Margarito. That’s 6 fights in 3 weight classes in a span of 24 months. How the hell would he have chance to fight all those fighters in that list. Do you expect him to fight every month?

Pac had one fight at 135 if you want him to fault for not fighting a top LW, then so be it.

But Pac fought Hatton who was ranked #8 in the P4P list. Not to mention the best fighter in that division. Bradley was not even a recognize as the top LWW since he hasn’t solidified it yet. He became one of the top players when he beat Holt, and Pac beat Hatton.
Cotto was ranked in the P4P list as well when Pac fought him. Only Pac, Mosley, Cotto and Floyd were the only WW in that list. The Pac-Cotto fight was a WW fight irregardess if it’s on a catchweight.
Berto hasn’t fought a legitimate contender at WW and its still unproven, Clottey’s resume at WW was far more better than Berto. Not to mention that Berto himself was not available for a fight.[/B]

So if this was Pacquiao saying he wanted to clean up the sport and have random drug testing carried out by WADA/USADA, you'd be all for it. That's what you're saying with your media statement. Or would you be against it, because you're clearly against it right now.

Listen to yourself: "If you total them up it will be just 6 if you include his next fight against Margarito. That’s 6 fights in 3 weight classes in a span of 24 months."

And to you, that's natural in boxing. To those who have followed the sports for years... yearSSS, that isn't natural. For those who have followed the sport of baseball, what McGuire, Sosa, Bonds, Ramirez, Rodriguez, etc... What they did has never happened in years. What Marion Jones was doing, hadn't happened in years. Getting it yet, brick?

So in other words, all you have is speculation. So that’s your argument, speculation with no proof. Because there was no mention in that article that Freddie was even aware when Toney was taking steroids. So who is being emotional now? Since you believe this speculations are true then your view is already skewed based on your emotional attachment on the issue. Obviously you are emotionally attached to Floyd, so you prefer to believe the speculation as true.

You believe that Freddie Roach didn't know? I mean, you called him contradictory. There's video interviews where he's stated that Toney had an injury and the doctor prescribed steroids for him during their training camp for Ruiz. Toney also was caught using again a few fights later. There's no emotion attached, these are facts. Not only are these solid facts I'm providing, but you prove you're a brick by claiming Roach is unaware of this, yet call him a contradiction in previous posts. Which one is it? Which one do you like, 30,24,18,14, or 7? Just not random right?

Somehow I knew you are goin to mention this. This one has already been argued at ******** boxing, and most of the posters there find it to be a joke.

So what if Ariza was booted out of Manfredy and Morales camp. It just proves that some methods just aren't suited to some athletes. Just like world class trainers in various sports are not always suited to training certain athletes, certain good training methods are not suited for everyone. It does not prove ****…[/B]

So, how about those special blends, you know, those, special concoctions that Pacquiao has no idea what Ariza puts in them, eh? Remember that 'fall guy' statement Ariza made? "Manny has no idea what I give him."

You’re mentioning fights that took place in the 40’s when we both know that fighters now have limited options because of few television dates with Showtime, HBO, ESPN. Throwing fights would hurt a fighter more considering a loss would place him back at the end of the line for those TV dates. Are you ****in’ kidding me.
And since we are talkin’ about Marg-Pac, why the hell would Margarito throw that fight when we both know that this might be his last chance of redemption in terms of the public and media perception. It will also guarantee him more money fights in the future if he wins.

First of all, there are fights where there is clearly a winner and clearly a loser yet the loser gets the nod. As I stated before, Ali-Funeka I, Malignaggi Diaz I are perfect examples. Some judges are influenced when scoring fights. Go to Canada and try to win on the cards. Be a GSP or Dibella entertainment fighter and try winning against a GBP fighter with judges appointed by GBP. Froch just went on record at the pre-fight presser with Abrahama and brought up official scoring with Abraham's promoter. It's common.

How could Margs-Pac be a fix, let's see;

Margarito is a proven cheater. The state he was licensed certainly wouldn't re-instate him. Arum has a good relationship with Jerry Jones now. Texas state athletic commission sees big profit coming to them with this event, Arum pulls some strings, and all of a sudden, a fighter who could have permanently damaged or even worse, killed another fighter, is getting licensed to fight for a renowned title. That fighter also happens to be in-house. Arum did Margarito a huge favor because now he can at least have his future fights in Texas, but Margarito now owes Arum a favor. It's not a stretch.

You would think that if a guy is willing to cheat for his prize money, he'll certainly take a dive to earn the biggest check in his life.

First a joke, now name-calling.. You keep flip flopping every opinion you have on a quote just to favor your argument.

huh?

So now you get your panties up when I turn the tables against Floyd’s. And Corrales being dehydrated is possible when we both know that this was discussed in this forum. Although you have a good argument to say that he wasn’t because Corrales didn’t fight like a dehydrated fighter.

Brick.

[deejd]

Actually I would have respected you more had you given a play by play analysis. Then we would have a real boxing discussion because we are actually talkin’ about fights. Had you given a play by play analysis then we would have found out if Cotto was indeed dehydrated. But then again what do you expect from a ***** when all you talk about are drug testing and weight issues.
Because in my view, Cotto started the fight going toe to toe with Pac, and he was doin’ it behind the jab while at the same time being able to keep up with Pac’s movement. A dehydrated fighter would not have done that.
Cotto himself did not attribute his lost to the extra 1 lb? So why would you start making excuses for him.

"we are actually talkin’ about fights" -Brick.

No. This thread is about a video addressing the drug testing issue, brick. It gets better.

"Had you given a play by play analysis then we would have found out if Cotto was indeed dehydrated." -Brick

"when all you talk about are drug testing and weight issues." - Brick, again.

See the correlation. Cotto gasses. He gassed against Clottey, He gassed against Margarito. He gassed against Mosley. He was gassing but was fortunate enough to stop Torres. When fighters start pressing the issue, Cotto tends to get on his bike in the middle rounds and try to cruise late. He was fortunate in each of those fights listed because he just happened to go up against fighters who tend to gas late as well. Typically, that happens to most, its natural.

So in your view, it was not because Funeka’s reach and long jabs as the reason why Campbell was getting hit in that fight. So everything is attributed to him losing weight. Funeka had nothing to do on why the fight was close.

Funeka's a tough out for anyone, but the Campbell that showed up, was fatigue and sluggish. Like I stated before, if you've never dedicated yourself to the sport, you wouldn't know how much of a struggle it is to cut weight. Campbell put everything he had out of his body in the second round. Why do you think Funeka was whooping his ass the rest of the fight? Not because he was a puzzle, it's because Campbell's body shut down.

Cotto looked bad against Clottey because he was dehydrated at 146? Really, thats your argument. Because if I recall it was Clottey who gassed out in the later rounds. Cotto rallied to win that fight.. if he was dehydrated then he wouldn't have had enough in the tank in the later rounds to win a close decision fight. He also went through that fight with a nasty cut. What you are doin' is making excuses, moron..

It's sad that you actually think Cotto won that bout. It's even worse that you think Cotto was a force a '46 and '45 I'm assuming. Cotto looked awful at '46, and he looked even worse at '45. It's why he's at '54 now.

Ok, you want to play that game. First, you acknowledge Pac’s fight against Cotto at 145. Or better yet, acknowledge the Pac’s victory of Dela Hoya at 147. Remember Dela Hoya-Pac was viewed as mismatch, so if we follow your thought then Pac (which he really is) was justified in taking that fight at 147 lb. As soon as you admit that you were wrong in criticizing those catchweight fights of Pac against Cotto and Dela Hoya, then I will submit to your argument.

What? That makes zero sense. Especially since the fight with Mosley was never made at '43 and '40 when he offered. There's a difference between Mosley and the other two. Mosley looked amazing in his last win against Margarito. Cotto looked terrible against Clottey when Roach suckered him down in weight and De La Hoya Hoya looked awful in his win fighting Stevie Forbes at '50.

So what have we learned class? Fight the guys who look very mundane and below par and, AND, make them lose as much weight as possible. Avoid studs though.

Moron, how many fights did Pac had at lightweight? Answer that and compare it with the number of years that Mosley campaigned at LW, and see if your comparison even equates.
You were calling Mosley great in moving 2 weight classes to fight Oscar, and yet you can’t even acknowledge the fact that Pac did the same. Then you dare to trash him for not moving 3 weight classes to ’54 to fight Dela Hoya.

Hahahaha, that sounds even worse. Yet you're ignorant mind can't seem to wrap itself around the fact that jumping that many pounds in such a short span of time is not natural. Thanks, brick.

Also, Pacquiao didn't fight DLH at '54, nor has/will he fight at '54. He's fighting a proven cheater at '50.

He was slowing down?? Prove it..

'26 and '30... Slowing down via Juan Manuel Marquez aka 'please, leave me alone'. Not to mention Erik Morales getting some work in. He faced a lot of sub par competition at '26 and '30 as well.

Maybe it’s because he is just a great fighter that is tutored by a great trainer? Didthat even cross your mind?
I didn’t follow him when he was at flyweight? Alright prove first that you did then we can talk. And what’s your point?

His trainer is contradictory, your words. Just to be correct to your standards, this is all Roach has ever had. He's seen no success to this degree with other fighters let alone been able to keep many since they move on to other trainers. Don't let that guy fool you into thinking he's great just because you started watching boxing in 2008. I never rode the Pacquiao train. I've watched him since '22 and I've notice amazing physical changes up to now and I'd be belittling my own self if I just blindly went along with the hype instead of questioning, 'how come he's never looked this devastating before?' and thinking 'this is the same Pacquiao that had stamina issues at the lighter weights.'

Huh? You mean like this: "Clottey had a chance to win the fight but step on the break pedal (either he lost steam, he thought the fight was in the bag, or maybe he just simply got hurt) in the end. It was his fault that he lost that fight."

So what’s wrong with that statement?

Look at it.

You are not a Pacquiao fan, and yet you followed his career when he was flyweight. Pac was a relatively unknown fighter in the US. If you were not a fan then how could you follow his career at flyweight?

But really it’s ok if you are not. I am not forcing you to be one. Just dont shove that I think Pac is on steroids to our throats as well

Never stated I did, I've stated in a previous post to this that I started watching Pac at '22 when he was getting more time on networks. No you're not forcing me to be a Pacquiao fan, but you're trying to tell me that if 'fighter A' requests 'fighter B' subject themselves to the exact same random drug tests that they are taking in an effort to show they are both clean, that 'fighter B' shouldn't agree.

I don't care who the fighters are. F it... it's not Mayweather and Pacquiao... Sergio Martinez is requesting random testing for Paul Williams. Nonito Donaire wants random testing between he and Darchinyan. Whomever, you're trying to tell me that its okay for someone to refute random testing and then turn around and go fight like everything's cool.

[mikemurni]

That interview of Mosley's "toothache" was after his 6th round KO of Vargas in the rematch. Your idiocy never fails. "Low risk/High reward": thank you for admitting that you're a parrot...?

Most ignorant quote I've seen on this whole boxingscene message board:

"Sure, Vargas was never the same after the back problems. But he was still a bigger name than May which translate to more $$$ for Mosley. "


Cong****.

I prefer this quote of yours as the top choice:
“I clearly rmember Pacquiao enforcing that into the contract, because for the third bout, Morales came in at '32, was penalized, and Pac had the choice to cancel the fight.”



So both were top draws? Then why would Pacquiao reject a fight from Mosley, not once but twice, months before that Mosley jumping in the ring occurred? How come Mosley, who actually went by Wild Card gym, was told "No, we won't fight you?" Talk about embarrassing. Mosley wasn't solely after Mayweather, he tried his absolute hardest to fight Pacquiao and they simply didn't fight him. Mayweather did, and won easily and impressively.

If you really follow the chronology of events, Cotto was already being geared as a possible opponent for Pac. Cotto and Pac are both Top Rank so there was more money involved for both Arum and Pac.

Cotto is an equally great fight for Pac as Mosley considering that Cotto was also one of the top fighters in that division. Not to mention that Pac did fight the guy that beat Mosley. If you really are objective on this issue you would agree with this argument. But then again what do I expect from a *****.

Good job avoiding the fact the you were wrong about your statement, 'PWill was afraid of Clottey.' Looks like you have Pacquiao qualities in ya. You don't use facts, point blank. Thanks for agreeing with my statement that Clottey never delivers though, Brick Parrot.

Moron, what exactly did I ignore? Clottey withdrew from a negotiation with PWill because of purse dispute and made an excuse about a broken thumb. You highlighted this and yet you conveniently forgot to dispute my original point about Clottey being a formidable foe for Pac. So in other words, you cherrypicked my post by only looking for points that you think you can counter.

Clottey never delivers at fight night? Huh? How about the fight against Judah, and the two great fights that he had with Cotto and Margarito. You want to punish him for losing to 2 top WW’s, and yet you try to push a fighter like Berto against Pac, GTFO here.

Huh? Different sources all stating the same things, bricks nowadays. Again, you never provide facts. I followed each article from the night of the Cotto fight, all the way through to it's collapse. OST came first.... everything Pacquiao wanted came after. Mayweather agreed to everything, and when Mayweather did, the excuses started flooding, it's that simple. Brick comprehend?

You moron, when I said source I mean Pac himself. You know the fighter who made the statement that he cannot move above 147. You gave me all sort of materials that came after that, and yet no quote from Pac himself that he wanted to fight at ‘54. That was your original argument that Pac contemplated about fighting at ’54, right? So who is making **** now.

Okay, so you're saying, fighters shouldn't, or can't, train in between fights? So somebody, who fights for a living, that's what they do, shouldn't or can't? Are you suggesting they all should just go to the pub, get big, and struggle to lose the weight like Ricky Hatton? Brick strikes again.
So now he was training in between fights. If he was training in between fights, then you just made your argument even worst since his last fight was at ’47 which means he was just tryin’ to maintain his weight.

Huh?
Read back your post and go check it yourself. I ain’t doin’ it for you.

It's one thing to get Cotto at '47, in-house, no debate. '45 and for the title, that has nothing to do with in-house, brick. That's the point. Also, Roach didn't have to oblige DLH. The problem here is that Roach didn't want the fight at '54 and wanted DLH to go down to '47 where he hadn't been in six years. Getting the point yet, brick? Speaking of lies, too bad Arum was talking about putting Pacquiao in with Yuri Foreman or Paul Malignaggi as a replacement for March 13th:

http://msn.foxsports.com/boxing/stor...er-dead-122409

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010...acquiao-fight/

It was Cotto who wanted ’45, not Roach. The negotiations was for Cotto to move down to ’44/’43 but Cotto said that he couldn’t move below ’45. It wasn’t Roach’s influence but Cotto’s stance at the 145 . So there you go, another lie..

The ‘147 fight was a logical weight for Pac/DLH. That was not a demand by Roach, it was by Team Pac. What you expect , make him move all the way to ‘54

Great, I never realized that Arum does the fighting for Pac in the ring now. You always failed to mention that it was rejected by the fighter himself so how can it be considered at all.



Ok, I am not goin’ to dispute your next argument just because you were too ****** to take the time to read my previous post (post # 274) related to it, or maybe just simply refused to reply on it.

Instead I am goin’ to re-post it again (see my next post) for the sake of continuity of this argument. So this time, no excuses for not responding to it.

[mikemurni]

Hey, Davis the ******, go reply on this instead

I think an admitted steroid user who just came off knocking out a fighter who had never been knocked out let alone knocked down throughout their career would be open to agreeing to testing, if not, how would that look? Then again, why would Mayweather pull the testing deal from the table? If he wasn't adamant about random testing before, he would have just signed to fight Mosley without it right? These guys are on another echelon of the sport. McGuire, Bonds, Sosa, Marion Jones, all on another echelon of their respective sports.

That’s right. By the way, did Mosley accept Judah’s offer for a more stringent drug test? How did that turn out? This is because if I recall, Schaeffer and Mosley told Judah to **** off when he propose to have the test.

Mayweather did not pull the drug testing for his next fight because he would look like a fool and a hypocrite. I mean how would the media, boxing fans feel that he was forcing Pac to take the random testing, and not Mosley who is an admitted steroid user? I am sure you would have found a way to defend Floyd and spin around the issue because you just love the taste of his nuts.

What you have to understand is that if Mayweather didn't attempt to move the goal post, then Pacquiao would have at least had that joke of a deal at 30 days to lean on as "trying" to make the fight. Mayweather makes a more than fair compromise of meeting halfway, on random drug testing. Can you believe it? The guy who wanted full random testing was willing to let somebody not test for 14 days. That was fair for everybody at that time. As soon as Pacquiao countered with 24 again all of sudden, that was okay to his legion of followers.

Oh so now he went from zero to 14 because he was trying to make the fight. So it’s not about cleaning the sport anymore. Then why did he turn down the 7 days proposal for the second negotiations. You just owned yourself right there. “That was fair for everybody at that time.” is what you said. So why can’t it be fair in ’09 and unfair ’10. Remember this is about the validity of the steroid testing, and not Floyd’s demand. If he thinks that you can be caught with a 14 day cutoff in ’09, then why can’t you be caught in 7 day in ’10.

Here's what's awesome and what proves how ignorant you are on that 0-14-0 point. Mayweather has changed the testing block once, and once only. Mayweather says 0, Pacquiao says 30. Mayweather says 14, Pacquiao says 24. Mayweather swipes the deal off the table, full random testing is the only option now. May 2nd, Pacquiao says 14 and his followers support that. Mayweather is still at 0. Pacquiao says 7 his followers support that. Mayweather is still at, 0. At some point you have to ask "why not agree to random testing?" Or are you still confused about what amount of time is good for Pacquiao? Do you like the idea of a 30 day cutoff or a 14 day? A 24 or a 7? Which one because you seemed to not like the 14 day cutoff when Pacquiao wanted 24. But now that its random or nothing, you like 14 and 7...? Which one is it, anything but random?

Who cares if Floyd changed his stance only once? The point is he still changed it. Both fighters were bargaining for a cutoff date that was acceptable for both. Floyd remained firm on the 14 days even during mediation because that was his stance regarding the drug test. He felt safe about that cutoff date. At least that’s what I thought at that time. I am not sure about its validity because I am not a medical doctor but in his mind the 14 days was enough.


It was all bull**** after all when Pac called his bluff and reduce his stance to 7 and Floyd rejected the offer. This drug testing bull**** was all about each fighter not fully giving to the other guy’s demand.

There you go again with that term "bailed." What did Mayweather bail out of? As far as I'm concerned he was ready to fight. Mayweather, who made no excuses at all bailed, though it was Pacquiao's team who had a plethora of reasons why Pacquiao couldn't take the tests, walked away from the table and scrambled to find somebody else to fight while Mayweather had no dance partner. But somehow, that means Mayweather bailed out of the fight...? That's brick logic, bad try.

Mayweather never failed to make the '47 lb. weight limit. That's where the fight was requested by Pacquiao. Again, that argument is stumped. This is why;

If Pacquiao requested the fight be at '44, now he has proof Mayweather's failed to make that particular weight. Since he requested the fight be at '47, what proof does Pacquiao have that shows Mayweather has never made that weight limit? None, because it's never happened. $10 million penalty for every pound over, unreasonable, point blank.

If Floyd was ready to fight then he would have not demanded the medical program. We would have already had the fight because all the terms were agreed upon. But Floyd just have to throw that wrench on what seemed to be a smooth negotiation.

You are talkin’ in circles, dude. If Floyd agreed to fight at a catchweight of 145 then he should have train his body to reach the 145 limit, but he didn’t. I am sure he could have made that weight of 145 because he had 6 months (the fight was moved from May to Sept) to do so.


So what does that prove? It proves that when it comes to honoring contracts, Floyd is just undependable. It doesn’t matter whether the fight was ’54, ’47, or ’60, Floyd did not give a **** whether he would come in overweight or not because he knows he can pay his way out of the terms of his contract, and wouldn’t hurt so much considering the penalty was too small compared to the purse that he was going to receive for the fight.

No, guy. One, you've missed the point altogether. Two, if you want to create jobs, NSAC wouldn't be the employer in this case. USADA would be the employer since they're running the random drug testing. Whereas the athletes that subject themselves to it are the employees... If you want to use labels.

There have been many instances where fighters have been asked to test, more recently, the Klitschko's were asked by media if they would subject themselves to testing and they said no. If you're in the job arena, then you'll find that most jobs will require that you subject yourself to drug testing and background checks, if you don't, no job. Mosley lost work when Zab requested testing, Pacquio lost work when Mayweather requested testing, and the Klitschko's have cut a few options of their own by making the statement that they wouldn't test. Vitaly's looking good, looking healthy at 39 going on 40 right??

****. So its USADA who is the employer now. How involved is USADA in professional boxing? Why are they are running things for the NSAC who regulates all fights in Nevada. I never realized that fighters need to get approved with USADA to get licensed to fight in the state.

Yes the Klitshko, Pacquiao, Mosley lost their jobs, but so was the fighters that they were suppose to face. It works both ways, moron. I am sure Vitaly takes good care of his body. And I mean that without any malicious intent.

Already answered. Si comprende, brick?

No, you haven’t, moron.

Why not use quotes from December, that was the most recent right? I mean, he is fighting above '45 right? He says he fought at '47 but Pacquiao never did until he fought Clottey. So to say he never intended on exceeding in weight, well, he did. Another lie, yet again, but apparently that's what you hate and support at the same time.

Yes it was great that you use quotes in December, which is more recent, except that you didn’t get it from the same source. Pac made the quote in November so if you want to get a sound byte if the fighter had a change of heart, then you should have gotten a quote in December from him and not from anyone else.

WTF, Pac made that statement after the 145 lb fight with Cotto that he cannot go beyond 147. So he fought Clottey at 147. So how the hell did he lie?

[IMDAZED]

Has Manny Pacquiao accepted full testing yet? Or still lying?

Anyone?

[Carpe Diem]

2010: Floyd is scared. Manny is a *****. We agreed, they lied. We're telling the truth, no we are.

2011: Floyd is a liar, criminal, and coward. Manny fully agree to his pointless test, Floyd still back out.


2012: Roach: "Floyd is still ducking Manny." Ronnie Nathanielsz: "Pound-for-Pound King, Hero of Asia, Fighter of the decade, Congressman Manny Pacquiao will make his first presidential campaign ad in the Philippines."


2013: Amir Khan is Boxing's most popular Boxer and P4P best. Larry Merchant finally decide to retire. Evander Holyfield is still active and fighting.


2014: Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao finally get in the ring, but the fight end in a decision of a no contest due to both fighters knocking each other out. Bernard Hopkins become the oldest Boxer to win the IBF cruiserweight and WBC Light-HW belts.