Interesting video on drug test issue

[deejd]

If you want to use bail-out in context as another great fight then you can say that Pac/Clottey being just a good one is bail-out while Floyd/Mosley is not.. If this is the case I am not goin to dispute this. I am goin’ to give you that.

Alright, so now it's not a "bail out", it's a "back up" plan for both. Let me reiterate, Mayweather had no back up plan. He was expecting to fight Pacquiao on the date of March the 13th, 2010. There was no plan B. Who would have guessed, one stipulation would get Pacquiao's panties in a bunch?

Pacquiao-Clottey was a step down. Mayweather-Mosley was just as good as Mayweather-Pacquiao, not just because Mosley is better than Clottey, but Pacquiao didn't want any part of a Mosley fight. Looking at the trends though, there will be a Pacquiao-Mosley bout next. I hear they like leftovers.

Pac did not want to fight at 154 against any fighter during the course of the negotiation. He did not want to fight before the negotiation, and he certainly didn’t want to fight after.
Pac and his management team already made that decision even before the negotiation started. So right there, your argument is already wide of the mark.

Then you say that Mayweather was prepping for a bout at 147. How can he be prepping when the contract hasn’t even been signed and training camp has not even started for both fighters? What does he need to prep for?

Then you say that Mosley plan in coming back to WW was to fight Mayweather. Well it’s not up to Mosley. If Floyd wanted to fight at 154 like you said he did, then Mosley irregardless of his status at 147 would have had no choice but to concede since he does not hold the cards in the negotiations.

So right there moron, your whole point dissected and disputed. I didn’t quote you in one line, I made sure all the points in that paragraph was answered.

December 1st, 2009 shows otherwise. '54 was clearly an option that Pacquiao's team was looking into since the stir was about going up another weight class for a world title then. Not to mention, he's "there" now.

http://www.************.com/2009/11/...man-next-news/

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=23910

You don't make this stuff up, their own camp name drops and makes these statements. You were the one that called Arum a "scumbag", not me. You're the one that claims Roach is a liar and contradicts himself, not me. At least the Mayweather's have the common sense to know that since they're atop the food chain, they don't need to name drop, or talk about their next extraordinary feat. Otherwise they'd come off as liars or scumbags right?

And unlike most fighters, Mayweather preps year round. http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/30/maywea...rring-partner/

Notice the date.

This one is funny because you keep rehashing the same quotes from Roach, when you damn well know that Roach consistency in interviews is never reliable.

Crazy because I recall Roach stating that Pacquiao would knock Hatton out within three rounds and Cotto in nine. Seems pretty accurate don't you think? Though here you are, claiming that Roach is a fraud. The same Roach who Pacquiao calls, "master."

So what!! This just means that Mosley, who was never in a position to bargain, and was force to agree to the blood testing. Floyd can demand that to Mosley but that doesn’t mean he can force feed that to Pac. Pac can negotiate on equal terms with Floyd. Floyd cannot force Pac to accept an all or nothing demand as if he was negotiating with some fighter who had limited options.

But then again, you missed my argument. If Floyd can move the goal post from 0 to 14 and back to 0 again, then that means his advocacy was never real to begin with, and his whole purpose of his demand was just geared to playing with Pac’s head. If their position was zero then they should have stuck with zero throughout the first and second negotiations.

The purpose of this demand is to prove that both fighters are clean, right? So if Floyd believe that you can be proven clean in the 14 days cutoff in ‘09, then why can’t you be proven clean with 7 days cutoff in ’10. Does that even makes sense to you??

I think an admitted steroid user who just came off knocking out a fighter who had never been knocked out let alone knocked down throughout their career would be open to agreeing to testing, if not, how would that look? Then again, why would Mayweather pull the testing deal from the table? If he wasn't adamant about random testing before, he would have just signed to fight Mosley without it right? These guys are on another echelon of the sport. McGuire, Bonds, Sosa, Marion Jones, all on another echelon of their respective sports.

What you have to understand is that if Mayweather didn't attempt to move the goal post, then Pacquiao would have at least had that joke of a deal at 30 days to lean on as "trying" to make the fight. Mayweather makes a more than fair compromise of meeting halfway, on random drug testing. Can you believe it? The guy who wanted full random testing was willing to let somebody not test for 14 days. That was fair for everybody at that time. As soon as Pacquiao countered with 24 again all of sudden, that was okay to his legion of followers.

Here's what's awesome and what proves how ignorant you are on that 0-14-0 point. Mayweather has changed the testing block once, and once only. Mayweather says 0, Pacquiao says 30. Mayweather says 14, Pacquiao says 24. Mayweather swipes the deal off the table, full random testing is the only option now. May 2nd, Pacquiao says 14 and his followers support that. Mayweather is still at 0. Pacquiao says 7 his followers support that. Mayweather is still at, 0. At some point you have to ask "why not agree to random testing?" Or are you still confused about what amount of time is good for Pacquiao? Do you like the idea of a 30 day cutoff or a 14 day? A 24 or a 7? Which one because you seemed to not like the 14 day cutoff when Pacquiao wanted 24. But now that its random or nothing, you like 14 and 7...? Which one is it, anything but random?

Well no fighter other than Floyd bailed their way out of a contract stipulation of a mega-fight before. So now we are back to the same argument of comparing the drug testing and the penalty clause.

Meanwhile Pac was never a steroid user so what gave Floyd the right to demand medical program of his choice?

If he wanted to clean up the sport then he could have presented his case to the NSAC and make it standard for all fighters.

There you go again with that term "bailed." What did Mayweather bail out of? As far as I'm concerned he was ready to fight. Mayweather, who made no excuses at all bailed, though it was Pacquiao's team who had a plethora of reasons why Pacquiao couldn't take the tests, walked away from the table and scrambled to find somebody else to fight while Mayweather had no dance partner. But somehow, that means Mayweather bailed out of the fight...? That's brick logic, bad try.

Mayweather never failed to make the '47 lb. weight limit. That's where the fight was requested by Pacquiao. Again, that argument is stumped. This is why;

If Pacquiao requested the fight be at '44, now he has proof Mayweather's failed to make that particular weight. Since he requested the fight be at '47, what proof does Pacquiao have that shows Mayweather has never made that weight limit? None, because it's never happened. $10 million penalty for every pound over, unreasonable, point blank.

So if you follow that analogy, the NSAC(employer) should institute random blood testing to all fighters (employees). The problem is only two employees (Pac and Floyd) are being subjected to the program instead of all.

No, guy. One, you've missed the point altogether. Two, if you want to create jobs, NSAC wouldn't be the employer in this case. USADA would be the employer since they're running the random drug testing. Whereas the athletes that subject themselves to it are the employees... If you want to use labels.

There have been many instances where fighters have been asked to test, more recently, the Klitschko's were asked by media if they would subject themselves to testing and they said no. If you're in the job arena, then you'll find that most jobs will require that you subject yourself to drug testing and background checks, if you don't, no job. Mosley lost work when Zab requested testing, Pacquio lost work when Mayweather requested testing, and the Klitschko's have cut a few options of their own by making the statement that they wouldn't test. Vitaly's looking good, looking healthy at 39 going on 40 right??

A rehashed argument deserved a repetitive response..

The penalty clause purpose is not whether he would come above at 147 or not. The penalty clause is there because Pac's team did not want to be on the receiving end of Floyd's ability to bail out from a provision of an agreement of a signed contract. And they have the right to feel this way for good reasons because it did happen. The high penalty amount was to make sure that Floyd will honor the agreement that he signed.

Already answered. Si comprende, brick?

Yeah that rights, ignore what the fighter said in November and instead use quotes from his promoter (made in December), whom by the way you consider as liar and a scumbag as reference for your argument.

Why not use quotes from December, that was the most recent right? I mean, he is fighting above '45 right? He says he fought at '47 but Pacquiao never did until he fought Clottey. So to say he never intended on exceeding in weight, well, he did. Another lie, yet again, but apparently that's what you hate and support at the same time.

[deejd]

I can be a Pac fan without believing every thing that Roach says in an interview. I can be a Pac fan because I based my judgment on what Pac does in the ring and not outside. And the fact that he is not afraid to test his skills against the best fighters in his weight class and above it. I am sure you are dying to criticize that statement that I just made.. so bring it on, mofo…

And that's exactly why I support Mayweather. The problem here is that, even though, despite me not digging the persona Mayweather reveals on tv, he asked for a single stipulation and the way Pacquiao responded, raises speculation about his in-ring accomplishments. Not to mention, he's pitted with, not against, a team of snakes.

And no, he's never faced the best fighters in every weight (or catchweight) class from '35 on.

You should just wack off on Floyd’s videos because that is what you are doing now… Are you ****in’ kidding me. You actually believe all the moronic, idiotic statement that spew from the Mayweathers’ mouth. They are the same people who said that Pac would get knocked out and toyed around in the ring by De La Hoya, Hatton, Cotto. And then in another interview after those fights, they threw in every excuse that they can find for the these fighters. They were the same people who made statements about A-side meth, about fixed fights. Do you actually believe that ****? If you are goin’ to believe every statement that Roger and Sr. made, then Floyd would have fought 40 bums in his 14 year career.

Well Floyd called himself as a greater fighter than SRR.. Do you believe him? I never would compare any fighter of this era to the legends in the past. The fact that you just compared Armstrong with Pac already shows you how high you think of Pac and his accomplishments that he made at the higher weights. Pac was coming out of one fight at 140, one fight at 147, and one fight at 135.. so how the hell can he not be justified to ask for a catchweight against an elite fighter at WW. Considering that his last fight at that weight was against a dehydrated Dela Hoya.

Only Sr. thought Hatton would win. Now I highlight that because in hindsight, after the whole testing journey has taken course, and you look back to Ariza, who's been caught administering steroids before, joining Pacquiao's camp when he moved up to '35 and Roach also being linked to fighters in the past caught for 'roids, the Mayweather's making those statements actually seem a bit more correct. Will we ever know if there was an aide in those fights, only time will tell.

You're asking me if I believe about the "A-side meth?" I'd say you're the one who must have took that seriously since you're asking. Although, I have listed designer drugs in former posts while providing professional sources. As far as fixed fights, they're common in boxing, it's happened before, it will happen in the future, whats false about that? "40 bums in 14 years?" When did they say that? Well, who hasn't Mayweather made look like a bum when the bell sounds anyway?

The odds for the DLH-Pac fight open as a 2-1 in favor of Dela Hoya and this was when many were saying that DLH was goin to destroy Pac, the Morales-Pac 1st fight was 2-1 in favor of Pac.. Those odds are nothing more than to entice gamblers to bet for the house.

You're the one who brought up the odds by saying nobody picked Pacquiao to beat Cotto. I showed you that Pacquiao was the favorite and I even picked Pacquiao to cruise in that fight. Now the odds don't matter?

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=23356

http://www.proboxing-fans.com/firepo...-again_111009/

http://sportales.com/boxing/hot-topi...-favor-pacman/

http://espn.go.com/sports/boxing/blo...dan/id/4640709

How the **** did they suckered Cotto to take the 145 catchweight when Cotto came in his last fight as 146 lbs. Cotto looked great goin in the fight and was actually trading blows in the first four rounds.

Cotto beat Mosley, moron. Plus how can Mosley at a dehydrated 143 be a better fight than non-dehydrated Cotto at 145. Would you have given Pac credit had he taken a 143 lb fight with Mosley. How can you do so if you couldn’t give Pac the credit against Cotto at 145?

You're right, Cotto came in at '46 against Clottey... and how did he look? He received a gift draw in his own backyard. Cotto looked terrible and the day after, Roach was mentioning Cotto at a catchweight like it was going to happen. Then it did... at '45. If only championship fights were just four rounds...? Thanks for proving that point.

You're right, Cotto beat Mosley, impressively? No. Cotto got beat by Margarito, regardless of whether or not illegal wraps were used and last time I checked, plaster doesn't improve your chin or effective pressure. Mosley destroyed Margarito, who at the time was heavily avoided. Why fight a stellar Mosley who we haven't seen at '43 or '40 for that matter, so we can't judge whether he'd be dehydrated, when a broken Cotto who just looked awful against Clottey is available? Starting to make sense, brick? Rather see Pacquiao beat somebody who looked impressive in their last outing than somebody who looked like a spent fighter who has trouble making the limit.

I am glad that you are at least acknowledging Pac’s legacy and giving him credit to some of his victories. In these times of internet forums and haters and fanboys and nuthuggers and the Pac vs Floyd drug debate, and all that bull****, it's very easy to lose sight of cold hard achievements that are being made under our very noses.

Once Pacquiao has retired, and the internet goons are fighting each other about newer fighters, history will of course look very, very kindly on his achievements. But I think if even the most hate-filled bastard on this forum including you considers what he would have said in March 2008 to the prediction that Manny Pacquiao would win 22 or 23 rounds out of 24 against Miguel Cotto and Joshua Clottey, he would recognize that we are living in the era of a serious, serious ATG.

Brick, you don't even know what Pac's career was before this overnight fame came about. I can bet the house the you're not an avid fan of boxing and all you do is ride Pacquiao. You didn't follow boxing back when he was fighting at '22 or '26, you jumped on the wagon when Pacquiao was being shoved down everybody's throat after Mayweather left.

Also, I don't hate Pacquiao. Just because someone has speculation about somebody you look up to doesn't classify them as a hater. I only speculate because in this era of sports, cheating is evident. The way not just Pacquiao, but everybody around him responded, gave off a suspect vibe and those who are blind and just love Pacquiao, won't allow themselves to think that something could be going on. That's naive and when anybody ever questions Pacquiao, a Pac rider will take it personally and will cry bloody murder. Get a grip. The sport will continue and be greater when Pacquiao leaves because he's holding it hostage.

I gave Floyd credit too. I think his best fight was against Corales even though I felt Chico was dehydrated but I give Floyd full credit for that fight. Because there was nothing Chico would have done that Floyd couldn’t handle in that fight.

Shut up the f*** up. That's a backhanded compliment, you might as well lie. Just say you hate Floyd Mayweather and I'd take that as you respecting him more than posting something as pointless as that.

[mikemurni]

Alright, so now it's not a "bail out", it's a "back up" plan for both. Let me reiterate, Mayweather had no back up plan. He was expecting to fight Pacquiao on the date of March the 13th, 2010. There was no plan B. Who would have guessed, one stipulation would get Pacquiao's panties in a bunch?

Pacquiao-Clottey was a step down. Mayweather-Mosley was just as good as Mayweather-Pacquiao, not just because Mosley is better than Clottey, but Pacquiao didn't want any part of a Mosley fight. Looking at the trends though, there will be a Pacquiao-Mosley bout next. I hear they like leftovers.

Oh correct.. That’s right, He didn’t have a backup plan because it took an earthquake and 20 lives to make Mayweather fight Mosley. I guess you forgot how Floyd was left stuttering when Mosley confronted him demanding a fight in Live Television. I am sure you guys must be very proud that he took on Mosley, and you should. But that fight should have been done 3 years back. But then again Floyd was forced to retire by the same fighters that Pac is fighting now.. And you know what is even funnier, Pac only had 3 fights at 147.. And you dare to even question his choice of opponents in that division.

Clottey was a very good fighter. Paul Williams, who had a reputation of being an “avoided fighter”, does not want anything to do with Clottey. Clottey may not have the career that Mosley had but Clottey was a legit threat at 147. Clottey gave Margarito in his prime a great fight when they had their bout. You know the same Margarito that Mayweather ducked in 2007.

December 1st, 2009 shows otherwise. '54 was clearly an option that Pacquiao's team was looking into since the stir was about going up another weight class for a world title then. Not to mention, he's "there" now.

http://www.************.com/2009/11/...man-next-news/

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=23910

Pac said to Brian Kenny after the fight that he didn’t want to fight at ’54. This was after his bout at ’47. If the fighter didn’t want to fight above ’47, what are they going to do. Pac maybe fighting at ’54 now but back in 2009 before the negotiations started he wasn’t even contemplating at fighting at ’54. His backup plan after the was at 147. Floyd’s fight with Mosley was at 147. Neither fighter had any intention to fight above 147 if you are going to base it from the replacement fight that they had when the negotiations failed.

You don't make this stuff up, their own camp name drops and makes these statements. You were the one that called Arum a "scumbag", not me. You're the one that claims Roach is a liar and contradicts himself, not me. At least the Mayweather's have the common sense to know that since they're atop the food chain, they don't need to name drop, or talk about their next extraordinary feat. Otherwise they'd come off as liars or scumbags right?

And unlike most fighters, Mayweather preps year round. http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/30/maywea...rring-partner/

Notice the date.

Geezz.. So he keep in shape in between fights, big deal. But how the hell would he prep for 154 when the contract is not even signed yet. Was he having weight issues? Was he having problems making the 147 limit? Does he already have a nutrition program for a possible 154 lb fight? Was his last fight at 154? So how the hell would he prep for a 154 fight when his previous fights and his next fight were both at the 147 limit?

Well its good that you feel so highly about Arum because he did say that Floyd is a coward. He did say that Floyd is afraid to lose his precious zero. Are you goin’ to keep quoting, or are you just goin’ to select those that favors your argument. Don’t answer that because I think I already know your response...

Crazy because I recall Roach stating that Pacquiao would knock Hatton out within three rounds and Cotto in nine. Seems pretty accurate don't you think? Though here you are, claiming that Roach is a fraud. The same Roach who Pacquiao calls, "master."

Hehehe… That statement proves that Roach is a great trainer. It doesn’t prove **** that Roach is consistent when it comes to issues related to any topic to any negotiations for Pac’s fights. He is been out of the loop when it comes to this area. Freddie has tons of sound bytes smearing Floyd’s name to the media. Would you believe that one to

[mikemurni]

I think an admitted steroid user who just came off knocking out a fighter who had never been knocked out let alone knocked down throughout their career would be open to agreeing to testing, if not, how would that look? Then again, why would Mayweather pull the testing deal from the table? If he wasn't adamant about random testing before, he would have just signed to fight Mosley without it right? These guys are on another echelon of the sport. McGuire, Bonds, Sosa, Marion Jones, all on another echelon of their respective sports.

That’s right. By the way, did Mosley accept Judah’s offer for a more stringent drug test? How did that turn out? This is because if I recall, Schaeffer and Mosley told Judah to **** off when he propose to have the test.

Mayweather did not pull the drug testing for his next fight because he would look like a fool and a hypocrite. I mean how would the media, boxing fans feel that he was forcing Pac to take the random testing, and not Mosley who is an admitted steroid user? I am sure you would have found a way to defend Floyd and spin around the issue because you just love the taste of his nuts.

What you have to understand is that if Mayweather didn't attempt to move the goal post, then Pacquiao would have at least had that joke of a deal at 30 days to lean on as "trying" to make the fight. Mayweather makes a more than fair compromise of meeting halfway, on random drug testing. Can you believe it? The guy who wanted full random testing was willing to let somebody not test for 14 days. That was fair for everybody at that time. As soon as Pacquiao countered with 24 again all of sudden, that was okay to his legion of followers.

Oh so now he went from zero to 14 because he was trying to make the fight. So it’s not about cleaning the sport anymore. Then why did he turn down the 7 days proposal for the second negotiations. You just owned yourself right there. “That was fair for everybody at that time.” is what you said. So why can’t it be fair in ’09 and unfair ’10. Remember this is about the validity of the steroid testing, and not Floyd’s demand. If he thinks that you can be caught with a 14 day cutoff in ’09, then why can’t you be caught in 7 day in ’10.

Here's what's awesome and what proves how ignorant you are on that 0-14-0 point. Mayweather has changed the testing block once, and once only. Mayweather says 0, Pacquiao says 30. Mayweather says 14, Pacquiao says 24. Mayweather swipes the deal off the table, full random testing is the only option now. May 2nd, Pacquiao says 14 and his followers support that. Mayweather is still at 0. Pacquiao says 7 his followers support that. Mayweather is still at, 0. At some point you have to ask "why not agree to random testing?" Or are you still confused about what amount of time is good for Pacquiao? Do you like the idea of a 30 day cutoff or a 14 day? A 24 or a 7? Which one because you seemed to not like the 14 day cutoff when Pacquiao wanted 24. But now that its random or nothing, you like 14 and 7...? Which one is it, anything but random?

Who cares if Floyd changed his stance only once? The point is he still changed it. Both fighters were bargaining for a cutoff date that was acceptable for both. Floyd remained firm on the 14 days even during mediation because that was his stance regarding the drug test. He felt safe about that cutoff date. At least that’s what I thought at that time. I am not sure about its validity because I am not a medical doctor but in his mind the 14 days was enough.


It was all bull**** after all when Pac called his bluff and reduce his stance to 7 and Floyd rejected the offer. This drug testing bull**** was all about each fighter not fully giving to the other guy’s demand.

There you go again with that term "bailed." What did Mayweather bail out of? As far as I'm concerned he was ready to fight. Mayweather, who made no excuses at all bailed, though it was Pacquiao's team who had a plethora of reasons why Pacquiao couldn't take the tests, walked away from the table and scrambled to find somebody else to fight while Mayweather had no dance partner. But somehow, that means Mayweather bailed out of the fight...? That's brick logic, bad try.

Mayweather never failed to make the '47 lb. weight limit. That's where the fight was requested by Pacquiao. Again, that argument is stumped. This is why;

If Pacquiao requested the fight be at '44, now he has proof Mayweather's failed to make that particular weight. Since he requested the fight be at '47, what proof does Pacquiao have that shows Mayweather has never made that weight limit? None, because it's never happened. $10 million penalty for every pound over, unreasonable, point blank.

If Floyd was ready to fight then he would have not demanded the medical program. We would have already had the fight because all the terms were agreed upon. But Floyd just have to throw that wrench on what seemed to be a smooth negotiation.

You are talkin’ in circles, dude. If Floyd agreed to fight at a catchweight of 145 then he should have train his body to reach the 145 limit, but he didn’t. I am sure he could have made that weight of 145 because he had 6 months (the fight was moved from May to Sept) to do so.


So what does that prove? It proves that when it comes to honoring contracts, Floyd is just undependable. It doesn’t matter whether the fight was ’54, ’47, or ’60, Floyd did not give a **** whether he would come in overweight or not because he knows he can pay his way out of the terms of his contract, and wouldn’t hurt so much considering the penalty was too small compared to the purse that he was going to receive for the fight.

No, guy. One, you've missed the point altogether. Two, if you want to create jobs, NSAC wouldn't be the employer in this case. USADA would be the employer since they're running the random drug testing. Whereas the athletes that subject themselves to it are the employees... If you want to use labels.

There have been many instances where fighters have been asked to test, more recently, the Klitschko's were asked by media if they would subject themselves to testing and they said no. If you're in the job arena, then you'll find that most jobs will require that you subject yourself to drug testing and background checks, if you don't, no job. Mosley lost work when Zab requested testing, Pacquio lost work when Mayweather requested testing, and the Klitschko's have cut a few options of their own by making the statement that they wouldn't test. Vitaly's looking good, looking healthy at 39 going on 40 right??

****. So its USADA who is the employer now. How involved is USADA in professional boxing? Why are they are running things for the NSAC who regulates all fights in Nevada. I never realized that fighters need to get approved with USADA to get licensed to fight in the state.

Yes the Klitshko, Pacquiao, Mosley lost their jobs, but so was the fighters that they were suppose to face. It works both ways, moron. I am sure Vitaly takes good care of his body. And I mean that without any malicious intent.

Already answered. Si comprende, brick?

No, you haven’t, moron.

Why not use quotes from December, that was the most recent right? I mean, he is fighting above '45 right? He says he fought at '47 but Pacquiao never did until he fought Clottey. So to say he never intended on exceeding in weight, well, he did. Another lie, yet again, but apparently that's what you hate and support at the same time.

Yes it was great that you use quotes in December, which is more recent, except that you didn’t get it from the same source. Pac made the quote in November so if you want to get a sound byte if the fighter had a change of heart, then you should have gotten a quote in December from him and not from anyone else.

WTF, Pac made that statement after the 145 lb fight with Cotto that he cannot go beyond 147. So he fought Clottey at 147. So how the hell did he lie?

[mikemurni]

And that's exactly why I support Mayweather. The problem here is that, even though, despite me not digging the persona Mayweather reveals on tv, he asked for a single stipulation and the way Pacquiao responded, raises speculation about his in-ring accomplishments. Not to mention, he's pitted with, not against, a team of snakes.

And no, he's never faced the best fighters in every weight (or catchweight) class from '35 on.

Who gives a **** about the persona which he tries to reveal on tv. If Floyd wants to have a reputation as a prick outside the ring then so be it. But don’t ask boxing fans to trust him on whatever he says. Because if he says that he was tryin to “clean up the sport”, then how the **** do we know that he is really sincere about that ****. Plus his actions were not exactly consistent to that nature.

He hasn’t faced some of the best fighters at ’40 and ’47? Prove it.

Only Sr. thought Hatton would win. Now I highlight that because in hindsight, after the whole testing journey has taken course, and you look back to Ariza, who's been caught administering steroids before, joining Pacquiao's camp when he moved up to '35 and Roach also being linked to fighters in the past caught for 'roids, the Mayweather's making those statements actually seem a bit more correct. Will we ever know if there was an aide in those fights, only time will tell.

So you mean that Roger did not think Hatton was going to win. Then why did he showed himself in Hatton’s camp and told in HBO that Hatton was the bigger and would win the fight. Why did Roger say that “the Pac-De La Hoya” fight was a mismatch. Why did Roger say that Cotto will beat Pacquiao.

Ariza was linked to steroids, which fights? Freddie was the trainer of Toney and not in charge of conditioning when Toney got caught. Toney never mentioned Freddie’s name when he was being investigated. So how the hell do you prove that Freddie was even aware of Toney’s steroid use. There was never in that investigation that Freddie’s name was brought into question. So all you have are accusation with no proof to stand on, boy. That thing won’t stand in court..

You're asking me if I believe about the "A-side meth?" I'd say you're the one who must have took that seriously since you're asking. Although, I have listed designer drugs in former posts while providing professional sources. As far as fixed fights, they're common in boxing, it's happened before, it will happen in the future, whats false about that? "40 bums in 14 years?" When did they say that? Well, who hasn't Mayweather made look like a bum when the bell sounds anyway?

So its just a joke now. He sure ‘aint sounding like a joking when he said the same things in interviews after interviews. Fixed fights are common in boxing, you say. Then give me one mega-fight that was fixed? In fact, give me a high profile fight that was broadcasted in a major network that was fixed?

He called Pac short of a bum. Floyd also called Hatton a “bum” in their press conference.

You're right, Cotto came in at '46 against Clottey... and how did he look? He received a gift draw in his own backyard. Cotto looked terrible and the day after, Roach was mentioning Cotto at a catchweight like it was going to happen. Then it did... at '45. If only championship fights were just four rounds...? Thanks for proving that point.

Maybe it’s because Clottey is a good fighter himself. Clottey gave the same amount of beating when he fought Margarito. That’s the problem with people like you who is fixated with weights instead of looking at the fights. When Coralles was dehydrated against Mayweather, why did you give Floyd the full credit.

If you can’t get past the fact that a fighter’s job is to make the weight that they agreed to, then you should just watch the weight-in and just skip the fight.

You're right, Cotto beat Mosley, impressively? No. Cotto got beat by Margarito, regardless of whether or not illegal wraps were used and last time I checked, plaster doesn't improve your chin or effective pressure. Mosley destroyed Margarito, who at the time was heavily avoided. Why fight a stellar Mosley who we haven't seen at '43 or '40 for that matter, so we can't judge whether he'd be dehydrated, when a broken Cotto who just looked awful against Clottey is available? Starting to make sense, brick? Rather see Pacquiao beat somebody who looked impressive in their last outing than somebody who looked like a spent fighter who has trouble making the limit.

Clottey had a chance to win the fight but step on the break pedal (either he lost steam, he thought the fight was in the bag, or maybe he just simply got hurt) in the end. It was his fault that he lost that fight. Not because Cotto looked terrible. It was just Clottey looked great against Cotto but was a moron for fighting with less intensity in the last few rounds. Unlike you, I am willing to give credit to a fighter’s performance inside the ring instead of finding excuses that is not related to the fight.

The fact that you attributed to Cotto’s performance after the 4th round to “dehydration” already shows me how shallow you are when it comes to analyzing fights. You actually believe that losing that extra 1 lb was the reason why he lost that fight instead of looking at the fact that it was the 4th round knockdown that turn the tide.

Don’t give me that **** that you wont criticize Pac if he took a fight with Mosley at ’43, you bastard. Fighting Mosley at 143 would have left Pac open to even more criticism, dummy. I mean he is already being criticized for fighting Cotto at 145, and now he is being criticized for fighting Marg at 150.

He is even being criticize by *****s like you in taking a fight at 147 against Dela Hoya forgetting the fact that he had to move 3 weight classes to do so. And you say that Mosley would have been a great opponent for Pac at 143. Bull****.

Brick, you don't even know what Pac's career was before this overnight fame came about. I can bet the house the you're not an avid fan of boxing and all you do is ride Pacquiao. You didn't follow boxing back when he was fighting at '22 or '26, you jumped on the wagon when Pacquiao was being shoved down everybody's throat after Mayweather left.

So if you followed Pac’s career then you would know that he came flyweight straight to super bantamweight. Do you attribute to steroid use, as well. And don’t give me that crap that you were following his career. I already caught you in a lie when you said Morales came in overweight when he fought Pac in the rubber match.


How can you test your “boxing knowledge” with me, moron when all you do is post stuff about things that takes place outside the ring. Why don’t you start analyzing fights for a change.

Also, I don't hate Pacquiao. Just because someone has speculation about somebody you look up to doesn't classify them as a hater. I only speculate because in this era of sports, cheating is evident. The way not just Pacquiao, but everybody around him responded, gave off a suspect vibe and those who are blind and just love Pacquiao, won't allow themselves to think that something could be going on. That's naive and when anybody ever questions Pacquiao, a Pac rider will take it personally and will cry bloody murder. Get a grip. The sport will continue and be greater when Pacquiao leaves because he's holding it hostage.

Hahaha...I am sure you like Pac, but you just love Floyd so much. Now that Pac is threatening Floyd spot as the best fighter in the world (Yes, I consider Floyd and Pac as co- 4P# 1), you don’t like him that much anymore.

Shut up the f*** up. That's a backhanded compliment, you might as well lie. Just say you hate Floyd Mayweather and I'd take that as you respecting him more than posting something as pointless as that.

Backhand compliment are *****s specialty, I learn that from you.

[Dempsey-Roll]

Don’t give me that **** that you wont criticize Pac if he took a fight with Mosley at ’43, you bastard. Fighting Mosley at 143 would have left Pac open to even more criticism, dummy. I mean he is already being criticized for fighting Cotto at 145, and now he is being criticized for fighting Marg at 150.

He is even being criticize by *****s like you in taking a fight at 147 against Dela Hoya forgetting the fact that he had to move 3 weight classes to do so. And you say that Mosley would have been a great opponent for Pac at 143. Bull****.

That's a good argument =O

[deejd]

Oh correct.. That’s right, He didn’t have a backup plan because it took an earthquake and 20 lives to make Mayweather fight Mosley. I guess you forgot how Floyd was left stuttering when Mosley confronted him demanding a fight in Live Television. I am sure you guys must be very proud that he took on Mosley, and you should. But that fight should have been done 3 years back. But then again Floyd was forced to retire by the same fighters that Pac is fighting now.. And you know what is even funnier, Pac only had 3 fights at 147.. And you dare to even question his choice of opponents in that division.

This is why I don't respect your opinions (you don't provide facts). You claim to know so much yet you don't watch boxing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPJhv...layer_embedded

Mayweather called out Mosley in '99 and '06. Mosley didn't want a Mayweather fight until he beat Margarito, facts, point blank.

Clottey was a very good fighter. Paul Williams, who had a reputation of being an “avoided fighter”, does not want anything to do with Clottey. Clottey may not have the career that Mosley had but Clottey was a legit threat at 147. Clottey gave Margarito in his prime a great fight when they had their bout. You know the same Margarito that Mayweather ducked in 2007.

This is exactly what I mean. You don't use facts. Williams was signed on in the fall to fight Clottey around December of last year and then Clottey pulled out after. The sad part is that he talked all of that garbage a few weeks prior to signing and then he was the one to back out. Clottey has never delivered when it counted. Don't even try putting Clottey remotely near Mosley, that guy will pale in comparison.

Pac said to Brian Kenny after the fight that he didn’t want to fight at ’54. This was after his bout at ’47. If the fighter didn’t want to fight above ’47, what are they going to do. Pac maybe fighting at ’54 now but back in 2009 before the negotiations started he wasn’t even contemplating at fighting at ’54. His backup plan after the was at 147. Floyd’s fight with Mosley was at 147. Neither fighter had any intention to fight above 147 if you are going to base it from the replacement fight that they had when the negotiations failed.

Chronology, you have failed again. You say back in '09, I've already provided you sources that state otherwise. You really want to play the "I'm not going over '47" card with Pacquiao but look where he is fighting his next fight at. This is no longer a debate.

Geezz.. So he keep in shape in between fights, big deal. But how the hell would he prep for 154 when the contract is not even signed yet. Was he having weight issues? Was he having problems making the 147 limit? Does he already have a nutrition program for a possible 154 lb fight? Was his last fight at 154? So how the hell would he prep for a 154 fight when his previous fights and his next fight were both at the 147 limit?

Huh? That video was taken by TMZ in late December. By that time, Mayweather had already accepted Pacquiao's request to fight at '47, so please, inform me on what bout Mayweather had at '54 that he'd be prepping for...? Your posting sheer rubbish at this point.

Well its good that you feel so highly about Arum because he did say that Floyd is a coward. He did say that Floyd is afraid to lose his precious zero. Are you goin’ to keep quoting, or are you just goin’ to select those that favors your argument. Don’t answer that because I think I already know your response...

There's a difference between name-calling and negotiating. You don't know this though.

Hehehe… That statement proves that Roach is a great trainer. It doesn’t prove **** that Roach is consistent when it comes to issues related to any topic to any negotiations for Pac’s fights. He is been out of the loop when it comes to this area. Freddie has tons of sound bytes smearing Floyd’s name to the media. Would you believe that one to

There are a lot of great trainers out there, but not all of them have star pupils with that have extraordinary physical attributes... unless they have an aide. When Roach wanted DLH at welterweight, that's where they got 'em. When Roach was saying that they wanted Cotto at '45, that's where they got Cotto. Roach was talking about getting Clottey after his plans failed with Mayweather, there was Clottey on the doorstep. He has no idea about negotiations, right?

[IMDAZED]

Manny lied about testing

Manny lied about testing

Manny lied about testing

Manny lied about testing

Manny lied about testing

Manny lied about testing

Manny lied about testing

Manny lied about testing

Manny lied about testing

Manny lied about testing

Manny lied about testing

[deejd]

Who gives a **** about the persona which he tries to reveal on tv. If Floyd wants to have a reputation as a prick outside the ring then so be it. But don’t ask boxing fans to trust him on whatever he says. Because if he says that he was tryin to “clean up the sport”, then how the **** do we know that he is really sincere about that ****. Plus his actions were not exactly consistent to that nature.

He hasn’t faced some of the best fighters at ’40 and ’47? Prove it.

So Mayweather being a prick outside the ring is what prevented Pacquiao to agree to random testing? Pacquiao didn't fight Cotto at '47. Pacquiao didn't fight Berto at '47. Pacquiao didn't face Mosley at '47. Pacquiao didn't/couldn't face Margarito at '47. Now that Margarito is at '54, they pit them at '50. Pacquiao didn't face Bradley, Maidana,or Alexander at '40. When Pacquiao was at '35 he avoided Casmayor, Campbell, Juan Diaz, or Joan Guzman....? Who, that's the best, has he faced?

So you mean that Roger did not think Hatton was going to win. Then why did he showed himself in Hatton’s camp and told in HBO that Hatton was the bigger and would win the fight. Why did Roger say that “the Pac-De La Hoya” fight was a mismatch. Why did Roger say that Cotto will beat Pacquiao.

Ariza was linked to steroids, which fights? Freddie was the trainer of Toney and not in charge of conditioning when Toney got caught. Toney never mentioned Freddie’s name when he was being investigated. So how the hell do you prove that Freddie was even aware of Toney’s steroid use. There was never in that investigation that Freddie’s name was brought into question. So all you have are accusation with no proof to stand on, boy. That thing won’t stand in court..

If speculation was raised then and testing carried out, Roger would be dead on with his predictions (minus Hatton, but then again, you make personal statements, so you could be lying, typical Pac material though).

Freddie Roach = Steroids.
http://www.steroidsources.com/Steroi...tive-for-peds/

Ariza started out with Corrales, was booted from their camp, then went to Morales for a fight and they got rid of him there since Morales complained about his conditioning and claimed that his liver was hurting. Then he was booted from Manfredy's camp [and eventually boxing] because they also didn't like the methods he was using. Not to mention, he uses a very abnormal method for Pacquiao.

So its just a joke now. He sure ‘aint sounding like a joking when he said the same things in interviews after interviews. Fixed fights are common in boxing, you say. Then give me one mega-fight that was fixed? In fact, give me a high profile fight that was broadcasted in a major network that was fixed?

He called Pac short of a bum. Floyd also called Hatton a “bum” in their press conference.

Jake LaMotta admitted to taking a dive in 1947 against Billy Fox to gain a later title shot. Jack Dempsey was involved in a fixed fight against Fireman Jim Flynn whom he lost by KO in the 1st. Some believe Ali-Liston II was fixed. Jack Johnson said his fight with Willard was fixed.

Look at Funeka-Guzman I, that was a fix. Nearly any GBP contest is a fix in their favor. Malignaggi-Diaz I. Fixed fights can come by actual fight stoppages, fighters taking dives, or bribery [scorecards]. You act like none of this happens in boxing on the elite level when it clearly has. You're just too close minded to think that it's not possible.

Again, your highlighting name calling, brick.

Maybe it’s because Clottey is a good fighter himself. Clottey gave the same amount of beating when he fought Margarito. That’s the problem with people like you who is fixated with weights instead of looking at the fights. When Coralles was dehydrated against Mayweather, why did you give Floyd the full credit.

If you can’t get past the fact that a fighter’s job is to make the weight that they agreed to, then you should just watch the weight-in and just skip the fight.

Huh, again? You are aware of the 33 fights Corrales had at '30, 27 were KO's. It's funny how ridiculous your statement is because Mayweather didn't say, "let's fight at '28." Great job sound ignorant, brick

[quote]Clottey had a chance to win the fight but step on the break pedal (either he lost steam, he thought the fight was in the bag, or maybe he just simply got hurt) in the end. It was his fault that he lost that fight. Not because Cotto looked terrible. It was just Clottey looked great against Cotto but was a moron for fighting with less intensity in the last few rounds. Unlike you, I am willing to give credit to a fighter’s performance inside the ring instead of finding excuses that is not related to the fight.

The fact that you attributed to Cotto’s performance after the 4th round to “dehydration” already shows me how shallow you are when it comes to analyzing fights. You actually believe that losing that extra 1 lb was the reason why he lost that fight instead of looking at the fact that it was the 4th round knockdown that turn the tide.

Don’t give me that **** that you wont criticize Pac if he took a fight with Mosley at ’43, you bastard. Fighting Mosley at 143 would have left Pac open to even more criticism, dummy. I mean he is already being criticized for fighting Cotto at 145, and now he is being criticized for fighting Marg at 150.[/qoute]

Huh? Huh? Again... all of that is just your play-by-play analysis. Fact of the matter is that weight plays a major role. If you've never participated in boxing and have had to stick to a regimen, you wouldn't understand what a difference 1-2 lbs. makes.

Gary Russell Jr. had his hopes of competing in Beijing because he passed out before he could make it to the scales to weigh-in. Nate Campbell looked awful against Ali Funeka because he failed to make the '35 lb. limit weighing in at '37. It's hard for the body to function at a certain point in the fight just because of the stress and energy that's exerted just to beat the scales. Weights mean a lot, and because Cotto looked bad at '46 against Clottey, it made sense to get him to '45 for Pacquiao. Game, set, and match.

We don't know what Mosley would look like at '43 because he never fought at '40. We can't even say Pacquiao would take flack for fighting at '43... or '40, because Pacquiao's team wouldn't sign him to take that fight, especially since Mosley looked so good in beating Margarito and because he was begging day after day to whomever would listen to give him a fight with Pacquiao. Again, you use hypothetical reasoning and personal opinions without the facts.

He is even being criticize by *****s like you in taking a fight at 147 against Dela Hoya forgetting the fact that he had to move 3 weight classes to do so. And you say that Mosley would have been a great opponent for Pac at 143. Bull****.

Pacquiao didn't move three weight classes to fight DLH. He moved two, from lightweight to welterweight. You know else did that? Shane Mosley made that jump to fight DLH years prior to... you know... when DLH was still alive. You know what else? Mosley admitted that he's used designer 'roids in the past. Coincidence?

So if you followed Pac’s career then you would know that he came flyweight straight to super bantamweight. Do you attribute to steroid use, as well. And don’t give me that crap that you were following his career. I already caught you in a lie when you said Morales came in overweight when he fought Pac in the rubber match.

Flyweight to super bantamweight is three weight classes by the way....? Pacquiao moved from Flyweight to Jr. lightweight, that's five weight classes and very understandable. During that time his KO percentage was great, just stellar, but he was slowing down.

Now you're talking four more weight classes at a time when Pacquiao was thought to be wrapping up a great career. His KO percentage is higher than ever and he's not just beating bigger guys, but it's not close. You didn't follow him from flyweight up because Pacquiao didn't start gaining attention, in the boxing world, until '22. You just jumped on in '07, along with every Pac fan.

How can you test your “boxing knowledge” with me, moron when all you do is post stuff about things that takes place outside the ring. Why don’t you start analyzing fights for a change.

Huh? You mean like this: "Clottey had a chance to win the fight but step on the break pedal (either he lost steam, he thought the fight was in the bag, or maybe he just simply got hurt) in the end. It was his fault that he lost that fight."

Hahaha...I am sure you like Pac, but you just love Floyd so much. Now that Pac is threatening Floyd spot as the best fighter in the world (Yes, I consider Floyd and Pac as co- 4P# 1), you don’t like him that much anymore.

Backhand compliment are *****s specialty, I learn that from you.

I'm not a fan of Pacquaio. Like I said, his career pre-'35 is legit. It's just how he's handled a single stipulation and the time line of camp changes and past connections to 'roid usage that lead me to speculate. It's just ignorant that the moment somebody speculates Pacquiao could be using, they're 'insert name here' and "don't know s*** about boxing", so you say.

Haven't given Pacquiao a backhanded compliment. I stated his legacy was secured before '30 and his recent accomplishments are tainted.

[mikemurni]

This is why I don't respect your opinions (you don't provide facts). You claim to know so much yet you don't watch boxing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPJhv...layer_embedded

Mayweather called out Mosley in '99 and '06. Mosley didn't want a Mayweather fight until he beat Margarito, fact, point blank.

Did I say that it was Floyd’s fault that the fight didn’t take place years ago.

That was a great video except that you forgot to mention that Shane was setting up a fight with Vargas at ‘54. Sure, Vargas was never the same after the back problems. But he was still a bigger name than May which translate to more $$$ for Mosley.

If you want to be on Floyd’s side of this issue of ducking, then you have to go back when Floyd wanted to fight Mosley at LW. However Floyd was a low risk/high reward for Mosley.

That incident with Floyd and Mosley in 2009 though was embarrassing for Floyd considering that both were already the top draws. But that fight did happened so it’s forgivable. It’s just unfortunate that it took a failed negotiation of the “fight of the century”, and an earthquake to seal that deal.

This is exactly what I mean. You don't use facts. Williams was signed on in the fall to fight Clottey around December of last year and then Clottey pulled out after. The sad part is that he talked all of that garbage a few weeks prior to signing and then he was the one to back out. Clottey has never delivered when it counted. Don't even try putting Clottey remotely near Mosley, that guy will pale in comparison.

I didn’t say that Clottey was a greater fighter than Mosley. I said that he was a live opponent for any WW fighter in that division. Margarito, Cotto, Baldomir were all loses that Clottey could have won. Clottey’s ability of finding ways of losing a fight (broken hand, heavy cut) is what kept him from being in the same level as the elites. He was a legitimate ranked WW fighter which Pac took in his second fight as a WW.

Chronology, you have failed again. You say back in '09, I've already provided you sources that state otherwise. You really want to play the "I'm not going over '47" card with Pacquiao but look where he is fighting his next fight at. This is no longer a debate.

So in other words, you got owned. You provided me materials from all different sources except from the guy who actually made that statement, which means that those materials of yours are garbage.

And your chronology svcks, moron. The weight, penalty, ring size, purse, OST were all presented and discussed at the same time in a close door session meeting between promoters. All terms except the venue, and OST were all agreed to at the same time. The only clear chronology that can be documented was the drug testing because Promoters were already negotiating through the media. So you are lying again..

You said that Pacquiao now is fighting at ’50 but back when the negotiations were being done, Pac had no intention of moving up in weight. That’s why he fought Clottey at 147. You still don’t get it?
Huh? That video was taken by TMZ in late December. By that time, Mayweather had already accepted Pacquiao's request to fight at '47, so please, inform me on what bout Mayweather had at '54 that he'd be prepping for...? Your posting sheer rubbish at this point.

So what? The training camp for both fighters hasn’t even started. What prep work does Floyd need to do when there was still no indication that the fight would even get made.

There's a difference between name-calling and negotiating. You don't know this though.

So earlier it was a “joke”, then now its “name-calling”. Do yourself a favor and stop quoting because you are just embarrassing yourself.

There are a lot of great trainers out there, but not all of them have star pupils with that have extraordinary physical attributes... unless they have an aide. When Roach wanted DLH at welterweight, that's where they got 'em. When Roach was saying that they wanted Cotto at '45, that's where they got Cotto. Roach was talking about getting Clottey after his plans failed with Mayweather, there was Clottey on the doorstep. He has no idea about negotiations, right?

Moron, Cotto was a ****ing give away since he was the most likely opponent for Pac after Hatton since both Pac and Cotto are from Top Rank.

Dela Hoya cherrypicked Pac to be his next opponent. Roach, Pac, or anyone from Team Pac was not in a position to impose a fight with Dela Hoya. When Dela Hoya said I want Pac, that’s when Roach started giving interviews about the fight. No one was going to disagree with him since no one would turn down a fight against De La Hoya.

Roach started granting interviews when Arum and Team Pac selected Clottey as his next opponent. So there another lie..




Hehehe..Dude, you’re replies are starting to be like Floyd because you’re cherrypicking your way to an argument. You are now back to quoting one line of a pharagraph from my post instead of arguing it in its entire context. You also prefer to argue trivial stuff that is not even related to our original topic.

You also conveniently did not reply my last post on issues regarding
a. The penalty clause.
b. Mayweather/Mosley blood testing
c. Floyd’s change of stance of 0-14-0
d. Mosley/Mayweather weight at 147 instead of ‘54


But it’s cool if you didn’t. Let’s just attribute the non-response to you getting “pawned” while succumbing to your own crap.