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Wlad must be in any top 25. 15 successful defenses, 4th highest of all time at HW. Even allowing for the debatable era argument, that is a great acheivment. Respect to Wlad!!!!!!Comment
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Obviously I've struck a nerve with a nuthugger. If you want any fighter to be argued as an all time fighter expect his whole resume to be gone over.
I don't see to many people arguing he isn't the best today. But if you want to compare resumes and legacies to the all time best, feel free. Im looking for a new kickball.Comment
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Ali's co-trainer AND Foreman.
This is what you have left? Inventing lies to prove your point? Neither was Brewster blind nor was Byrd past-prime. Stop deluding yourself even more.
You use Liston once again to prove Ali's greatness. Ridiculous.
Another cheap shot. What has being a golfer to do with anything? Why don't you call Wlad a "kite-surfer" to make another cheap point. Moreover Corrie Sanders was not out of shape.
And as I have said before: Ali had only 32 real heavyweight fights. Sanders was Wlad's 43rd. Bring Sanders up again after Ali has had 43 real heavyweight fights.
Had trouble? He basically won every round. Another cheap shot. Moreover Peter would have ruled the 70ies including Ali.
And at 1 years of age he weighted 5 lbs. What the heck?
Yawn. And was put into place by Foreman (6'3.5'') with a few shots.
He not only was blind on one eye: After Ali closed his other eye he was practically fully blind in the last rounds of the fight.
Pure speculation, completely unsubstantiated by Frazier's record. Stop deluding yourself once more.
In his entire career Wlad has not faced such a dwarf like Frazier. And because of his eye condition Frazier wouldn't be allowed to fight nowadays.
Typical lame excuse. Eddie Chambers, Chris Byrd, Brock, Sam Peter and Thompson etc could have ruled the seventies. CLAYtons are just too blind to accept a simple fact: Heavyweights get better BECAUSE athletes IN EVERY SPORT get better.
I WATCHED these fights. They are hardly bearable. Except for a few moments especially Ali is a disgrace. So SLOW, so PLODDING, such a FEATHERFIST. Ali is completely flat-footed (except in his earlier fights or when he occasionally does the "merry-go-round escape maneuver" = *cough* floating). No defence whatsoever, choking his opponents with his arm, insulting them. Dis-gus-ting.
Just watch Ali vs Chuvalo: How can you watch that crap? (And I actually think that Ali vs Chuvalo was Ali's best performance). Ali vs fatty Mathis. What a boredom. Ali vs Norton: How can Ali fight THAT bad?
Tell me GreatA, which of the following HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE FIGHTS do you like more:
- Heavyweight world title 1966: Ali fights a Cleveland Williams who has been shot prior to the fight, suffered from kidney damage and nerve damage, could not train and had 10 feet of his intestines removed
- Heavyweight title 1972: Ali fights a 180lbs cruiser (Bob Foster)
- Heavyweight world title 1975: A guy with Parkinson (Ali) fights a half-blind (Frazier, blind in his left eye)
- Heavyweight world title 1976: A guy with Parkinson (Ali) fights a featherfist bum (Jimmy Young, career record 34-19, KOratio 19%)
- Heavyweight world title 1978: A guy with Parkinson (Ali) vs a 6-0 cruiser bum (Spinks, 197lbs, career record 26-17)
Tell me GreatA, which fight was better: Where the guy with Parkinson loses the heavyweight title to a 6-0 bum? Or the 7-0 bum loses the title to a guy with Parkinson? Who do you personally think represents the 70ies heavyweight division better: A guy with Parkinson or a 6-0 CRUISER?
Who would want to watch such a crap nowadays? How can you consider the 70ies division better than nowadays division? That a guy with Parkinson could actually rule the division shows you what a crap the division was. I guess they call it GOLDEN age because it was such a p*ss.
Read my post at
and wake up.
Exactly. That's why they called it "heavyweight" then. But you know what? 190lbs is 190lbs. Now and then. And Louis (198) vs Schmeling (193) was nothing but a cruiserfight. Who cares how the called it then. Get over it.
When RJJ moved up the limit was not 200 as it is now. RJJ has never had any what-we-call-now heavyweight fight.
Spare us your favorite fantasies.
They were not cruiserweights when they fought Wlad. Again you invent stuff to make a point. It's a big difference whether Wlad fights Byrd (213) or Ali fights Bob Foster (180). One is a heavyweight fight, the other is not.
What a nonsense. RJJ never fought at 200+. Toney is 6-2 now. Toney is a great boxer but a heavyweight bum. Hardly competitive. Don't invent stuff.
No, my interest is FACTs. And as opposed to so many "Ali-delusionists" I ACTUALLY WATCHED his fights. The difference is that I didn't watch them ON MY KNEES.
This post was full of BS, but the bolded part is the best
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A question for all Klitschko worshippers
How many times the top 25 heavies choosen by Rold were stopped between their 25 and 32 years (it means in their maturity?)...
I show u:
0 stoppages: Alì, Louis, Johnson, Holmes, Holyfield, Marciano, Dempsey, Jeffries, Langford, Bowe, Tunney)
1 stoppage: Foreman (Alì), Lewis (McCall), Tyson (Holyfield), Liston (Alì), Charles (Walcott), Walcott (Simon), Schmeling (Baer), Jeannette (Black Bill), Corbett (Fitzsimmons)
2 stoppages: Frazier (Alì, Foreman), Norton (Garcia, Foreman), Baer (Louis, Nova)
3 stoppages: Wills (2 Langford, Jim Johnson), Patterson (2 Liston, Alì).
To W.Klitscho it happened 2 times, with fighters who are not in the list (Brewster and Sanders)...He never won a fighter in that list: it seem a good reason to exclude him from 25 greatest heavies of all times.
(Bold points a boxer in the Rold's list; Italics points an highly suspect match)Last edited by tuxtucis; 03-26-2010, 12:03 PM.Comment
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Not a Klitschlo hater
Anyway I consider myself not a Klitschko hater...
I m Italian and I like that heavyweight division is dominated by two European boxers...But that means not they re the greatest fighters of all time!
Same way I was happy Italy won 2006 Fifa World Cup, nevertheless i don' think that was an all-time great soccer National team...Comment
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you guys just always look for the smallest thing to look at and try to discredit the klitschkos
there dominating, and that pisses all you guys off....Comment
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Funny how you try to make up rules just to fit your bias. "Oh, Tyson had just 1 stoppage between.... errrm.... age 25 to 32. Lewis had also just 1 KOLoss. Thus Klitschko is not top25 material". Ridiculous.
This revisionism is typical of oldtime-nostalgists.
But not only that you INVENTED some nonsense statistic like "KOlosses during the age span of 25 to 32" YOU ALSO ADDITIONALLY FAKED the results:
For example Schmeling had not 1 KOloss but 2. Frazier had not 2 KOlosses between 25 and 32, but 3.
I wonder how much lower oldtime-nostalgists can sink to make a silly point.
Let me also point out how you manipulated the age to fit your agenda:
If I define "prime" as "age 27 to 35" (which actually is MORE LIKELY a prime than your definition) then suddenly Wlad has merely 1 KOloss, Liston has 2 and Ezzard Charles has 4.
You also fail to mention that Wlad's KOlosses were against real heavyweights (225, 226, 245 lbs) while guys like Norton, Schmeling and Charles have been KOed by 180+ guys. Max Schmeling in his entire career has not faced anyone remotely heavy like Brewster.
Ezzard Charles has been KOed in his what-you-call "25 to 32 prime" by a cruiser (190 lbs, who boxed as low as 158lbs in his career): Walcott. Don't ever DARE to compare such a KOloss to Wlad's KOloss.
This is as ridiculous as stating "Joe Louis never won against anyone of Wlad's era: Exclude him" or even better
"Muhammad Ali never won against anyone from a list I just invented: Ali sucks".Comment
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And AGAIN you twist the reality until it fits your bias.
If Wlad has to win against 4 or 5 guys to be undisputed then this is of course 4-5 times MORE WORTH than if you have to win only against 1 or 2 guys (like Ali). Stop distorting the obvious.
Moreover I answered that nonsense already at: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...98#post5528498Last edited by knn; 03-26-2010, 08:37 PM.Comment
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