Lennox Lewis and the KLITCHKO BROTHERS are top 3 heavyweights of all time

[knn]

HAHA Ali's ACTUAL peformance in the ring. Hmm.

What about the Klit's actual performances.

I can tell you: Sheer dominance. There is hardly any round they convincingly LOSE. Something that cannot be claimed about Ali.

Like getting KOed multiple times against **** fighters.

You have reached the pre-last step of your Ali-delusion:
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...&postcount=147
You are so predictable.

Quitting against Chris Bryd and being stopped by a soon to be retired Lennox Lewis. Those are actual performances. Or did you miss those ones?

No, those ARE actual performances by Vitali and they push down his record, of course. Everything else would be revisionism.

Tell me this, when was Ali knocked out by mediocre heavyweights like Corrie Sanders, Lamon Brewster, and Ross Purrity.

I already answered it: Wlad was KOed by Sanders in his 45th heavyweight fight. Ali hasn't even faced so many heavyweight opponents. Approx 50% of Ali's fights were against cruisers or Ali himself being a cruiser. Ali has had 32 real heavyweight fights (both opponents 200+ lbs). Ali's opponents (whole career) were median 205lbs. IN OTHER WORDS: Ali's MEDIAN OPPONENTS are LIGHTER THAN WLAD's LIGHTEST opponent. 34 of Ali's opponents are LIGHTER than Wlad's LIGHTEST opponent. Only 1 of Ali's opponents was heavier than Wlad's AVERAGE opponent (fatty Mathis).

OF COURSE Ali got KOed LESS with such little and such light opponents. That's a no-brainer. Shows you again what a crap the 70ies heavyweight division was.

Actually I'm kind of interested in your irrelevant statistics. They make me laugh.

Insane Laughter will be the only thing you will have left. Facts tend to creep in.

If your so much about statistics I think you can appreciate that boxrec, the statistical bible that you have marked as your home page has Ali ranked as the #1 heavyweight of all time by a mile.

Because they, too, make no heavyweight toplists, but p4p toplists that include Ali's cruiser wins. That's why they have Langford and others in their top 10 who don't belong there. And that's why Marvin Hart is above Foreman. Moreover they value a 0-0 fighter (= his first fight) as basically worthless (= a win over Vitali Klitschko in his first fight would be worthless). I value the whole career record.

Please also note that right now Wlad (1578) would be at #2 (directly behind Ali, 2119) in their toplist (as far as I understand their point system). And Wlad is still active.

Moreover boxrec makes a record toplist, while threads in forums are usually "Who beats Who" topics. In other words: On the "Military ATG toplist" Genghis Khan could be #1 (since he invented new forms of attack, instant soup and written language) while he would have no chance against Ronald Reagan in a real world clash.

[alishuffle]

Oh i see.

Valuev over Ali..............do me a favour!!!

You understand I didn't say Valuev over Ali right? I just wrote a page on why Ali would dominate Valuev. Don't confuse me and knn.

[Dynamite Kid]

You understand I didn't say Valuev over Ali right? I just wrote a page on why Ali would dominate Valuev. Don't confuse me and knn.

Yeah i know.

[knn]

Well hell, I know a 6' 300 lb girls, so with your math, if they fought Tyson, they would they would already have a 3:1 advantage?

Yes, they would have, thus to beat them Tyson's skills need to be approx. 3x bigger than their skills. Since Tyson was an ATG you can assume that he would beat them. As soon as the opponents got better Tyson fared far worse:
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...29#post5523729

And why should this only matter to heavyweights?

Because lower weight divisions limit the max. weight thus indirectly also the height. Thus in lower divisions you don't have such advantages because they are approx equally heavy and equally tall.

And for the record, Liston is recorded as having an 84" reach and we know from your stats that he was an actual heavyweight (=200+ lbs), Valuev is listed with an 85" reach.

What has Liston do with this topic?

And don't say that Liston was past his prime, according to you, a fighter cannot be past his prime that's just an excuse.

A fighter can be past his prime. It's just strange that I hear this only about US fighters. If Evan Fields wins it's "Wow", if he loses "He was shot since 28 years".

Sonny Liston was 14 years older than Ali (officially nearly 10 years, but Liston lied about his age).

Ali was not only able to beat a fully capable Liston, but was able to embarrass him. Even when Ali was blind, Liston couldn't get to him. How the hell would Valuev be able to do it?

For example because Liston has a real heavyweight record of 13-0 (at bout with Ali, mostly bums), while Valuev has 50-1. Sonny Liston was mainly an old bum-beater (who has never won against a 200+ in a heavyweight world title) while Valuev is 6x world title winner. Don't even compare Liston to Valuev. Valuev (although his performance may look akward) has a pretty good record.

Also, you forget to realize that size is also a hiderance. Being bigger is not always better. Just look at the military.

"Just look at the military"?
Please! What's next? "Just look at swimming how shaving eyebrows can make you faster"?

the reason they want lean mean fighting machines is that all the extra weight, and size slows them down, wears them out quicker, and becomes a handicap.

You are not the first who 1) claims "Size is not necessary an advantage" and then 2) brings up Valuev as an example.

What the heck? Valuev has a record of 50-1. Do not bring him up as an example of how "size means shize". The opposite is true: He can be considered a proof of how size matters, since everyone agrees that he is limited and yet has a record of 50-1.

[knn]

Knn talks about factual achievements yet firmly believes that George Foreman was drugged purely based on rumors.

Yes, I believe Foreman gassed because he was drugged. I believe Foreman, since Foreman is no bullcrapper:

• "I almost spit it out ... [I told my trainer] 'Man, I know this water has medicine in it'"
• "I climbed into the ring with that medicinal taste still lingering in my mouth."
• "After the third round, I was as tired as if I had fought 15 rounds. What's going on here? Did someone slip a drug in my water?"
• "I know there was medicine in that water. I'll never forget that."
• "It was years before I got my health back together after that fight"
• "It wasn't doctors who put something in my water. They didn't have PhDs. I'm lucky I'm still alive."

However I keep the Foreman-win in Ali's record. I don't allow any revisionism.

Tells you exactly what his agenda is. Tear down old fighters even if it means bending the truth, in an effort to promote the K brothers.

I promote current heavies. And the Klitschkos happen to be the top boxers thus I mention them rather often.
I will continue posting facts about the so called "Golden" age of heavyweight boxing until it's famous for the crap that it was:
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...40#post5597040

Listen, you don't need to tear down fighters from other generations to be a fan of the K brothers. Just be a fan and accept them for what they are today. Quit your silly agenda and just be a boxing fan, if that's what you are.

I mainly concentrate my efforts on Muhammad "The greatest talker" Ali because he *deserves* an unbiased look at his performance. There seem to be not many who actually watch his fights.

[The_Italian]

I can't believe there are still people in this thread who think these new russian/ukraine etc. breed of hw are superior to some of the greatest fighters that ever lived.

the main arguement thats been brought up regarding ali v. valuev is ridiculous.

How can any person with an ounce of self-respect openly admit they believe valuev is a superior fighter to ali?

who could honestly believe this???

this thread should be closed. not based on a rule being broken but based on the fact that this thread is so ****** it SHOULD be against the rules.

to think a 7 foot 300lb doughboy could beat a prime ali it insane.

We are talking about ali...in terms of movement; one of the greatest fighters weve ever seen. how could a man like that (or many of the other great hw of the past) lose to this butterbean knockoff?

seriously?

im waiting for someone to post a reasonable explaination as to how valuev could ever defeat ali?

[Southpaw Stinger]

Yes, I believe Foreman gassed because he was drugged. I believe Foreman, since Foreman is no bullcrapper:

• "I almost spit it out ... [I told my trainer] 'Man, I know this water has medicine in it'"
• "I climbed into the ring with that medicinal taste still lingering in my mouth."
• "After the third round, I was as tired as if I had fought 15 rounds. What's going on here? Did someone slip a drug in my water?"
• "I know there was medicine in that water. I'll never forget that."
• "It was years before I got my health back together after that fight"
• "It wasn't doctors who put something in my water. They didn't have PhDs. I'm lucky I'm still alive."

However I keep the Foreman-win in Ali's record. I don't allow any revisionism.


I promote current heavies. And the Klitschkos happen to be the top boxers thus I mention them rather often.
I will continue posting facts about the so called "Golden" age of heavyweight boxing until it's famous for the crap that it was:
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...40#post5597040


I mainly concentrate my efforts on Ali "The greatest talker" Ali because he *deserves* an unbiased look at his performance. There seem to be not many other who actually watch his fights.

Wow that is so generous of you.

[Southpaw Stinger]

I can't believe there are still people in this thread who think these new russian/ukraine etc. breed of hw are superior to some of the greatest fighters that ever lived.

I've only seen one of these people in this thread, and he's a piece of ****.

[TredKiller]

you know what Knn,
you can say and do whatever you want,
but no matter what you saw, history will always show

that Ali was the greatest HW of all time,
and there's nothing you or the kilts can do that will ever change that

[The_Italian]

I've only seen one of these people in this thread, and he's a piece of ****.

exactly...

but i still cant see how someone can actually prove a reasonable gameplan to me that says valuev can beat ali.

well first he's going to have to workout more properly and go on a freakin diet.

thats the first step...

then he needs to learn some better boxing mechanics before even dreaming of making such a challenge.

unless the gameplan someone posts includes that or something similar i dont know if i can actually take them serious.haha.