HORUS PRESENTS: WHY NoW???

[Horus]

I thought this discussion was about why improved drug testing is being talked about right now. The simple answer is that one of the two most high profile fighters in the sport has asked for it in order to gain a psychological advantage over an opponent he rightly considers a threat, not because he in on a crusade to clean up the sport. Mayweather is dressing his quest for an advantage up as some sort of campaign and Pacquiao is probably unwilling to play ball based on principle and a bad experience in the past with random testing. Of course, a cynic would say that he is unwilling to play ball because he actually is on PEDs, but as there is absolutely no evidence supporting this conclusion at the current time, it is improbable. Especially considering that the main accuser believes Pacquiao to be on a semi-mythical and superstitious placebo.

Ask yourself, How did Marion get busted for PED's usage?

* Circumstantial evidence, not a positive test.

Ask yourself, How did Shane Mosley get busted for PED usage?

* Circumstantial evidence, not a positive test.

Ask yourself, How did Mark Mcgwire get busted for PED usage?

* Circumstantial evidence, not a positive test.

Ask yourself, How did Roger Clemens get busted for PED usage?

* Circumstantial evidence, not a positive test.


Like i said before we do not have no evidence except circumstantial that he has taken ped's because he has never taken a test that could detect ped's.

so the only evidence we have so far in the case of Manny Pacquiao is circumstantial evidence.

Which in any court in america if argue correctly can get you verdict of guilty.

So when you say we do not have any evidence you are wrong, we have the same amount evidence they had for Shane Mosley, and others
Circumstantial. Until Pacquiao takes a random drug test before he fights his next opponent.

[Guest]

Absolutely...






















































If Shane didnt also pass every test.

Is that evidence Pac cheated?

So you are blaming the system because occasionally things slip through the cracks.

I thought Shane's story was he only used them for a short period, therefore it wouldn't show up on tests anyways.

The way it was told to me, was it wasn't long enough to give him an advantage anyways.

He had a brief flirtation with Victor Conte but it was over by the time he fought.

[DonTaseMeBrah]

Circumstantial Evidence

• Head got bigger just like bonds, Mccgwire, etc
• Increase his speed and power as he moved up in weight in a span of 2 years.
• Knock out ratio went up as he went up in weigh and as he got older instead of going down
• Turned down 40 million dollars, with 5 different explanations none which made sense.
• Sued Mayweather, but not Cintron, Campbell, Paulie, and others
• etc.

That is just some of the circumstantial evidence that have me questioning the Pacman usage of PED's.

Like I said before we do not have no evidence that he has taken PED's because he has never taken a test that could detect PED's.
once again there is no edvidence that Manny is juicing, except for circumstantial evidence. Which in any court in America if argue correctly can get you verdict of guilty.


I do not understand throwing anyway 40 millions dollars because of a random drug test.


So IMO, Pacquiao has done this to himself, Not Floyd,Not Me, and not others who now have questions about his career.

These guys have gotten better after 25 but there not dominating and destroying top guys the way Pacquiao is.

wait a second, i thought oscar was sooooo shot & weight drained that essentially anybody could have knocked out & dominated the oscar that faced pac. i mean nobody gives credit to pacquiao on that one. at least the *****s. how many times have i read that anybody could have beaten the oscar that showed up that night.

ricky hatton? i thought ricky hatton was washed up? i thought fraud jr. "cracked" hattons chin? i thought fraud jr. already showed the "blue print" to beat hatton.

miguel cotto? is this the weight drained by 2 lbs cotto? is this the same damaged goods cotto by margarito's plaster?

what now joshua clottey? i thought joshua clottey was one dimensional & easy work for pacquiao?

what gives? why do you pac haters act like pac is really doing something special here? They are all crap wins & not that hard to do right? Who needs steroids to do those things?

Emmanuel Steward and Lampley essentially said the same thing. They expected him to slow down given all the wars...not SPEED UP.

pacquiao has slowed down. featherweight pac is much faster than welterweight pac. the only difference is he's facing welterweights. there's a clear difference when you watch featherweight pac shadow boxing vs welterweight pac;

watch the first minute of this video showing pac shadow boxing in the park;



compared to the welterweight version now;



its clear that his speed has gone down. its just that he's fighting heavier guys so naturally he's gonna be faster because he has fast hands & the fact that he's from a lower weight class.

none of those boxers you listed moved up in weight and ko'd their opponents,,none..most get older and wiser switch up their styles and win by ud's

1. james toney started at 160 now knocking guys out at heavyweight
2. hector macho camacho started at 130. knocked guys out at 135, 140,147,154, & 160.
3. roberto duran started at 118 knocked guys out at 135, 147, 154, 160, & 168.
4. tommy hearns started at 147 knocked guys out at 154, 160, & 175 hell tommy even knocked guys out at cruiser weight.
5. vinny pazienza started at 135 knocked guys out at 140, 147, 154, 160,168.
6. mickey walker started at 147 ended up knocking out heavyweights......


motherfvkers i could go 20 deep with the list of guys who went up in weight & were successful & knocked guys out!

again horus;
THERE IS NO 40 MILLION DOLLAR DRUG TEST. Not only has pac passed all required test his sport's ruling commission requires him to HE AGREED TO THE EXTRA TESTING THAT FLOYD ASKED.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE DISAGREEMENT OF THE CUT OFF DATE.

As for the ko going up, i disagree. He ko'd diaz because of accumulation, same thing with oscar, & cotto. Clottey went full 12 rounds without a scratch on his face while surviving 1200 plus punches.

If pac was on steroids & his power,speed increased according to *****s, how come he didnt spectacularly ko clottey?

By my final count, only hatton has been KO'D cold by pac since pac was moving up in weight.

As for the body/& limbs dismorphic accusation, i have already debunked this ***** propaganda ;

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=343902

__________________

[Talisayen]

You are overrating your own intellect, copying and pasting does not make you smart or scholarly.....true story.

Here is another true story for you, Floyd saw the beating Cotto received knew in his heart of hearts that he couldn't inflict anywhere near the amount of damage on such a very good and world class fighter so he found a way out without blatantly seeming like he was.

Stop the bs and accept that this is what happened, the fact that you are so obsessed with what one guy does and keep spamming the boards with nonsense always related to him proves how easily amused and dull witted you are.

Damn, everybody here on this site has a right to do copy and paste.

Let me do it too...

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

Is that evidence Pac cheated?

So you are blaming the system because occasionally things slip through the cracks.

I thought Shane's story was he only used them for a short period, therefore it wouldn't show up on tests anyways.

The way it was told to me, was it wasn't long enough to give him an advantage anyways.

He had a brief flirtation with Victor Conte but it was over by the time he fought.

Nope not evidence Pac cheated. Its evidence things "occasionally slip through the cracks". There is a good chance hes clean there is a good chance hes dirty.

[shogunn]

Absolutely. YES.

Now is there a chance that Pac is on PEDS?

FACT, they werent testing for roids when mosley roided up, testing began later in the year. Name 1 fighter who passed through after they started testing. fernando vargas, toney, roy jones, among others were caught, proving testing works.

FACT, Manny passed all tests.

FACTs, you dont have any

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/magazine/11/18/pacquiao-cotto/#ixzz0XH6vRbPw

[P4P Opinion]

Ask yourself, How did Marion get busted for PED's usage?

* Circumstantial evidence, not a positive test.

Ask yourself, How did Shane Mosley get busted for PED usage?

* Circumstantial evidence, not a positive test.

Ask yourself, How did Mark Mcgwire get busted for PED usage?

* Circumstantial evidence, not a positive test.

Ask yourself, How did Roger Clemens get busted for PED usage?

* Circumstantial evidence, not a positive test.


Like i said before we do not have no evidence except circumstantial that he has taken ped's because he has never taken a test that could detect ped's.

so the only evidence we have so far in the case of Manny Pacquiao is circumstantial evidence.

Which in any court in america if argue correctly can get you verdict of guilty.

So when you say we do not have any evidence you are wrong, we have the same amount evidence they had for Shane Mosley, and others
Circumstantial. Until Pacquiao takes a random drug test before he fights his next opponent.

What circumstantial evidence?

Here is the Wikipedia definition of circumstantial evidence:

Circumstantial evidence indirectly proves a fact. It is evidence that requires or allows a trier of fact to make a deduction to conclude that a fact exists. This inference made from a trier of facts supports the truth of assertion (in criminal law, an assertion of guilt or of absence of guilt). By contrast, direct evidence supports the truth of an assertion directly—i.e., without need for any intervening inference.

EXAMPLE: Testimony that the witness saw the defendant shoot the victim gives direct evidence. A forensic scientist who testifies that ballistics proves the defendant’s firearm killed the victim gives circumstantial evidence, from which the defendant’s guilt may be inferred.

I've highlighted the example so we are definately on the same page here.

Find me circumstantial evidence that indirectly proves the assertion that Pacquiao is on PEDs.

[Guest]

Ask yourself, How did Marion get busted for PED's usage?

* Circumstantial evidence, not a positive test.

Ask yourself, How did Shane Mosley get busted for PED usage?

* Circumstantial evidence, not a positive test.

Ask yourself, How did Mark Mcgwire get busted for PED usage?

* Circumstantial evidence, not a positive test.

Ask yourself, How did Roger Clemens get busted for PED usage?

* Circumstantial evidence, not a positive test.


Like i said before we do not have no evidence except circumstantial that he has taken ped's because he has never taken a test that could detect ped's.

so the only evidence we have so far in the case of Manny Pacquiao is circumstantial evidence.

Which in any court in america if argue correctly can get you verdict of guilty.

So when you say we do not have any evidence you are wrong, we have the same amount evidence they had for Shane Mosley, and others
Circumstantial. Until Pacquiao takes a random drug test before he fights his next opponent.

Nope not evidence Pac cheated. Its evidence things "occasionally slip through the cracks". There is a good chance hes clean there is a good chance hes dirty.

I don't tend to accuse people of things without it ever proved they did it before, but maybe that's just me.

[Horus]

What circumstantial evidence?

Here is the Wikipedia definition of circumstantial evidence:



I've highlighted the example so we are definately on the same page here.

Find me circumstantial evidence that indirectly proves the assertion that Pacquiao is on PEDs.

Not to be a ****, but Wikipedia is the worst source of information you can site in the world you might as well quoted the urban dictionary. go find a law journal, anything credible.
Save me the Wikipedia.

btw, circumstantial evidence is used when hard evidence can not be presented.

EXAMPLE:
Can not find the dead body, so they used circumstantial evidence to prove their case.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

I don't tend to accuse people of things without it ever proved they did it before, but maybe that's just me.

Where have I accused him? I said his behavior regarding the matter has led me to believe he could be hiding something.