Who has a greater legacy, Joe Calzaghe or Ronald Wright?

[IMDAZED]

Who else would have beaten him at middleweight back then besides Hopkins and Wright? The guy was dangerous at 160.

The question is, aside from Hops and Wright, who else was elite at 160? And Wright was at 154, I believe.

**edit - Wright was at 160**

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Powder Puff Kid....one question. Quartey/Tito.....were they "elite and prime" (your phrase) when Winky beat them?

One word answer please.

[Dynamite Kid]

LOL, ok.

Pop quiz..



Get what? Define older too while you're at it. 25? 30? 40?



Yes, at a certain point they tend to slow as you get older.



Well I thought he beat Jermain in the first fight handily. 8-4. I scored the second a draw. And I thought Calzaghe gave him hell because...well, Calzaghe's a good fighter! You act as if an elite Hopkins is unbeatable or something.


He was in several. And took lots of shots in a lot of fights that weren't wars.


Shot? I don't know. He looked like he checked out in round two which was quite un-Tito like.



Well yeah, he hadn't lost any limbs.


He hadn't lost any limbs either so I'll guess yes? WTF??




No basis? What was your basis for saying he was still elite?

I say around 35 is a point where your legs would of already been on the way out. Hopkins was 36 when he fought Tito, whether you think later or not the point is only exasperated by the time Hopkins fought Jermain/Calzaghe he was around 40 and older when he fought Joe.


Well i felt he lost both fights tbh. My point is if Hopkins physical was still there he would not have been throwing the pitiful number of punches he was throwing and been perceived to of got outworked. You remember that line by Merchant about how these days Hopkins fights like a lion waiting in the weeds, doesn't that tell you something about how he had to adapt his style at this point and most importantly why??



I dont i act as though i know Hopkins has the style to beat Joe and that he was on his way to doing that despite being well outta his prime but his physical that has brung him from being elite fighter to a B/B+ class fighter is what enabled Joe to win, thats even if you think Joe won.


No. Tito was only in a war with Vargas, most of his other fights he was dealing out the punishment and did not take much punishment in his career, he had moderately hard fight with Hopkins but nothing major.


Checked out? or maybe he realized that Tito had his number that Tito followed Nard's game plan of breaking Tito's rythm up with the jab and stuffing him with the jab everytime he tried to edge that left foot closer to uncork that left hook?

He hadn't lost any limbs then i dont see how he is not longer elite as a fighter if his skills are still there to.


See your acting silly when i know you know what i really mean, however i will clarify anyway, when i say still intact im mean still capable of performing at the same level as in his prime, say around the Glen Johnson fight?

No basis? What was your basis for saying he was still elite?

Because he was always elite, its down you to disprove he is no longer.


How did i know!!!! you were gonna duck the last question despite saying i wanted that answered most of all.

[Biolink]

I honestly prefer Winky's resume.

I prefer the A-listers on Winky's list to Calzaghe's.

Joe's beaten some solid B-listers, and an older Hopkins.

That's just my opinion

[Dynamite Kid]

Powder Puff Kid....one question. Quartey/Tito.....were they "elite and prime" (your phrase) when Winky beat them?

One word answer please.

I believe Prime is when you peak physically and your Boxing skills coincide with that and if those two things dont coincide then you find the happy medium.

Tito was not prime imo but he was still elite, his physical would have to start betraying him before you could question that imo. When your lack of reflexes/stamina and general shotness are factors in why your losing fights it suggests you are no longer elite,thus meaning your susceptible to losing to lesser fighters like Taylor, however Wink was an elite fighter, Tito did not lose to bum or a B class fighter, i dont think you guys understand this, plus he would of always given Tito problem stylistically, matter of fact id pick him over Tito prime or otherwise.


Quartey just dominated and got robbed against Vernon Forrest so yeah id say he was pretty much still elite.


One word answers is like you asking me if Calzaghe beat Hopkins.

[Easy-E]

I honestly prefer Winky's resume.

I prefer the A-listers on Winky's list to Calzaghe's.

Joe's beaten some solid B-listers, and an older Hopkins.

That's just my opinion

You cannot deny that Winky's big wins over Mosley (and argubly Tito) are better than any win on Joe's resume.
But Joe has won against alot of solid opposition, and has not lost.
I agree with IMDAZED when he said its close, but Joe is a notch above Winky.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

I believe Prime is when you peak physically and your Boxing skills coincide with that and if those two things dont coincide then you find the happy medium.

Tito was not prime imo but he was still elite, his physical would have to start betraying him before you could question that imo. When your lack of reflexes/stamina and general shotness are factors in why your losing fights it suggests you are no longer elite,thus meaning your susceptible to losing to lesser fighters like Taylor, however Wink was an elite fighter, Tito did not lose to bum or a B class fighter, i dont think you guys understand this, plus he would of always given Tito problem stylistically, matter of fact id pick him over Tito prime or otherwise.


Quartey just dominated and got robbed against Vernon Forrest so yeah id say he was pretty much still elite.


One word answers is like you asking me if Calzaghe beat Hopkins.

So thats a no then. Thanks.

[The Great Shark]

If anything Wright does, at least he's still fighting and has proved 10x more than Calslappy ever has.

[IMDAZED]

I say around 35 is a point where your legs would of already been on the way out. Hopkins was 36 when he fought Tito, whether you think later or not the point is only exasperated by the time Hopkins fought Jermain/Calzaghe he was around 40 and older when he fought Joe.

Ok. So Hopkins was past his prime. Doesn't mean he wasn't elite. Azumah Nelson wasn't in his prime when he dismantled Jeff Fenech.

Well i felt he lost both fights tbh. My point is if Hopkins physical was still there he would not have been throwing the pitiful number of punches he was throwing and been perceived to of got outworked. You remember that line by Merchant about how these days Hopkins fights like a lion waiting in the weeds, doesn't that tell you something about how he had to adapt his style at this point and most importantly why??

Sure. But Hopkins adapted well. And two of his best wins came after 40.

I dont i act as though i know Hopkins has the style to beat Joe and that he was on his way to doing that despite being well outta his prime but his physical that has brung him from being elite fighter to a B/B+ class fighter is what enabled Joe to win, thats even if you think Joe won.

Maybe. I'd like to think a younger Hops would beat Joe too. Doesn't mean Winky is a greater fighter. A younger Hops beats up Winky too.

No. Tito was only in a war with Vargas, most of his other fights he was dealing out the punishment and did not take much punishment in his career, he had moderately hard fight with Hopkins but nothing major.

He took loads of punishment against Hopkins too? I'm just scratching the surface here.

Checked out? or maybe he realized that Tito had his number that Tito followed Nard's game plan of breaking Tito's rythm up with the jab and stuffing him with the jab everytime he tried to edge that left foot closer to uncork that left hook?

Ok...

He hadn't lost any limbs then i dont see how he is not longer elite as a fighter if his skills are still there to.

Tito was not the same fighter he was in his prime. How could he have been? He had fought once in three years and was three years removed from a bad, bad beating.

See your acting silly when i know you know what i really mean, however i will clarify anyway, when i say still intact im mean still capable of performing at the same level as in his prime, say around the Glen Johnson fight?

What's your point here?

How did i know!!!! you were gonna duck the last question despite saying i wanted that answered most of all.

You're getting rediculous. Tito isn't just elite because you say so. The onus is on you, bud. And all you can say is that he beat Mayorga at 160 so he's elite?

[IMDAZED]

BTW, I have to laugh at this:

he had moderately hard fight with Hopkins but nothing major.

Really? A fight where he was beaten, battered lost 11 rounds and had his father come rescue him as he suffered the first pro loss and it was "moderately hard?"