Roy Jones Jr and his "Greatness" ???

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  • Super_Lightweight
    Jesus of Nazareth P4P
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    #51
    lol

    Sanders, Jirov, Benn, McClellan, Jackson, Michalczewski, Nunn, Rocchigiani to name a few.
    Wow...so why didn't DM fight those guys if Roy has to? You love DM so much but hold him to a lesser standard which shows me that you do not think DM is as good as Roy.

    1) Sanders...No one wanted to see this fight. Roy cannot duck a man who is fat, out of shape, and isn't in Roy's weight class. Roy only fought at heavyweight to get a belt, and everyone knows that. Sanders couldn't even beat Ruiz if they fought.

    2) Jirov...again, 2 totally different weight class. You can't just pick random guys and say that Roy ducked them. Roy and Jirov were in negotiations, and then bigger fish came along with Ruiz and his belt. Do you understand the term "ducking" at all?

    3) Benn...Benn fought not one single fight in his last 6 years of boxing in the United States...all were in Europe. What makes you think Benn even wanted to fight Roy? Benn was also a very dirty fighter and almost killed his best friend in the ring so no wonder it might be true that Roy didn't want to share a ring with Benn and his tactics. Benn lost to THULANE MALINGA who Roy DESTROYED. When Benn and Roy were in the same weight class, Benn was KO'd twice by Steve Collins.

    4) McClellan...best friends rarely fight each other. Look at Zab and Floyd. Floyd don't want to fight Zab, and vice versa, it's just a matter of principle. In rare cases friends fight each other, but you can't say Roy ducked Gerald because they were best friends and maybethey would have fought if Gerald wasn't almost killed in his fight with Benn.

    5) Julian Jackson and Roy's histories don't even cross much. Roy didn't have that many fights by the time Jackson was already 10 years in the game. Jackson got KO'd in his biggest fights and that's his own fault (except against Terry Noris). You can't blame Roy for Jackson getting KO'd and having started his career way before Roy started his.

    6) DM...bull****, plain and simple. DM was not considered the champ, and should have been willing to go to the U.S. to fight Roy. German judges have been horrible even to this day, and anyone can see why Roy wouldn't fight DM in his own backyard. DM's unwillingness to travel pretty much shows how serious he was in wanting to fight Roy. His ridiculous undefeated record probably would never have happened had he fought Roy in his prime. Roy wasn't ducking a challenge, Dm just wasn't seeking one.

    7) Michael Nunn...lost to Toney, who Jones dominated. Had a close fight with Merqui Sosa, who Jones KO'd in 2 rounds. Nunn also was not a realsupermiddleweight or even a lightheavyweight. He weighed in the 180's and 190's long before Roy did. He was simply not in the same weightclass. He almost always outweighed his opponents. Nunn was made the challenger to Roy by the WBC even though in his 4 previous fights he weighed in at 186, 175, 191, and 186. He even went all the way up to 196 shortly thereafter.

    8) Rock...Rock was illegally stripped of championship status, but you can't blame Roy for that. Blame the WBC. Between 1996 and 2000 (around when they were in the same class) Rock fought a whopping 5 times. 2 were losses to DM and in his only "significant" win he beat 35 yr-old Nunn by split decision.

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    • cvt
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      #52
      another roy thread?...

      first of all, roy neevr ducked hopkins. when hopkins won against trinidad roy offered a 60/40 split of the purse...earning B-Hop his biggest pay-day (only to be ecplised by his DLH years later).

      now..if you are the 'fighter of the decade', the P4P king, the undisputed ligtht heavyweight champion who has a win on your opponent...why would you settle for an even split?? 60/40 was very fair...but it was B-hop who wanted more and priced himself out.

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      • The Troll
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        #53
        Originally posted by Super_Lightweight
        Wow...so why didn't DM fight those guys if Roy has to? You love DM so much but hold him to a lesser standard which shows me that you do not think DM is as good as Roy.

        1) Sanders...No one wanted to see this fight. Roy cannot duck a man who is fat, out of shape, and isn't in Roy's weight class. Roy only fought at heavyweight to get a belt, and everyone knows that. Sanders couldn't even beat Ruiz if they fought.

        2) Jirov...again, 2 totally different weight class. You can't just pick random guys and say that Roy ducked them. Roy and Jirov were in negotiations, and then bigger fish came along with Ruiz and his belt. Do you understand the term "ducking" at all?

        3) Benn...Benn fought not one single fight in his last 6 years of boxing in the United States...all were in Europe. What makes you think Benn even wanted to fight Roy? Benn was also a very dirty fighter and almost killed his best friend in the ring so no wonder it might be true that Roy didn't want to share a ring with Benn and his tactics. Benn lost to THULANE MALINGA who Roy DESTROYED. When Benn and Roy were in the same weight class, Benn was KO'd twice by Steve Collins.

        4) McClellan...best friends rarely fight each other. Look at Zab and Floyd. Floyd don't want to fight Zab, and vice versa, it's just a matter of principle. In rare cases friends fight each other, but you can't say Roy ducked Gerald because they were best friends and maybethey would have fought if Gerald wasn't almost killed in his fight with Benn.

        5) Julian Jackson and Roy's histories don't even cross much. Roy didn't have that many fights by the time Jackson was already 10 years in the game. Jackson got KO'd in his biggest fights and that's his own fault (except against Terry Noris). You can't blame Roy for Jackson getting KO'd and having started his career way before Roy started his.

        6) DM...bull****, plain and simple. DM was not considered the champ, and should have been willing to go to the U.S. to fight Roy. German judges have been horrible even to this day, and anyone can see why Roy wouldn't fight DM in his own backyard. DM's unwillingness to travel pretty much shows how serious he was in wanting to fight Roy. His ridiculous undefeated record probably would never have happened had he fought Roy in his prime. Roy wasn't ducking a challenge, Dm just wasn't seeking one.

        7) Michael Nunn...lost to Toney, who Jones dominated. Had a close fight with Merqui Sosa, who Jones KO'd in 2 rounds. Nunn also was not a realsupermiddleweight or even a lightheavyweight. He weighed in the 180's and 190's long before Roy did. He was simply not in the same weightclass. He almost always outweighed his opponents. Nunn was made the challenger to Roy by the WBC even though in his 4 previous fights he weighed in at 186, 175, 191, and 186. He even went all the way up to 196 shortly thereafter.

        8) Rock...Rock was illegally stripped of championship status, but you can't blame Roy for that. Blame the WBC. Between 1996 and 2000 (around when they were in the same class) Rock fought a whopping 5 times. 2 were losses to DM and in his only "significant" win he beat 35 yr-old Nunn by split decision.

        Michalczewski fought Rochigiani twice and won both times. He fought Derrick Harmon who won a clear descision against Glencoff Johnson who knocked Roy Jones Jr. He knocked out in 4 Montell Griffin who gave Jones so much trouble in their first fight.

        You then bring up Benn and McClellen. Benn and McClellen are not even that great of fighter each of them have losses to low ranked fighters, and Julian Jackson is not prize winner either I dont why you even bring them into the discussion.


        (Before this bout, then-WBC Light Heavyweight champion Roy Jones made his intentions to fight Heavyweight James 'Buster' Douglas on May 20, 1998 instead of Michael Nunn, the WBC mandated challenger. The WBC title was then declared vacant and contested between #1 rated Nunn and #2 rated Graciano Rocchigiani. However, in June of 1998 the WBC illegally changed down-graded Rocchigiani's classification to that of an 'interim' champion, and then stripped him outright, having declared Roy Jones as being the champion in recess. Rocchigiani sued the WBC and was awarded $31 million in damages. Also as a result of this lawsuit, a United States District Judge retroactively restored Rocchigiani’s official WBC Light Heavyweight championship status in April 2003, but only from 03-28-1998 to 04-15-2000, when he lost to Dariusz Michalczewski.)
        Jones ducked Nunn
        Last edited by The Troll; 03-30-2005, 12:21 PM.

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        • The Troll
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          #54
          Julian Jackson 55-6 Losses

          L TKO 9 Anthony Jones 38-8-2 Year 1998

          L KO 9 Verno Phillips 29-7-1 year 1998

          L TKO 6 Quincy Taylor 25-3 Year 1995

          L KO 1 Gerald McClellen 27-2 Year 1993

          L TKO 2 Mike McCallum 26-0 year 1986

          Jackson's last fight was in 1998


          Gerland McClellan 31-3 Losses

          L KO 10 Nigel Benn 39-2-1 year 1995

          L UD Ralph Ward 12-3 year 1989

          L PTS Dennis Milton 11-2-1 year 1989

          McClellan's last fight was in 1995


          Nigel Benn 42-5-1 Losses

          L TKO6 Steve Collins 33-3 year 1996

          L TKO4 Steve Collins 32-3 year 1996

          L SD Thulane Malinga 40-9 year 1996

          L TKO9 Christ Eubank 24-0 year 1990

          L KO6 Mike Watson 21-1-1 year 1989

          Benn's last fight was in 1996


          Michael Nunn 58-4 Losses

          L SD Graciano Rocchigiani 39-4-1 year 1998

          L UD Frankie Liles 25-1 year 1994

          L SD Steve Little 21-13-2 year 1994

          L TKO11 James Toney 25-0-1 year 1991


          Sander of SA is totally irrevelevant to the topic I dont know when or why was going to fight him. I would have liked to see Michalczewski fight Nunn but I never heard that at any time the fight was on the table. Nunn and Michalczewski never have any mandate to fight each other, but Nunn was Roy's mandatory and he skipped out of it.
          Last edited by The Troll; 03-30-2005, 12:37 PM.

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          • Super_Lightweight
            Jesus of Nazareth P4P
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            #55
            lol

            Roy's mandatory and he skipped out of it.
            Like I said, the "mandatory" had weighed in at 175, 186, 186, and 191 in his 4 previous fights. He was NOT in Roy's weight class ANYWAY. Don't tell me Roy was trying to avoid an old Michael Nunn.

            Michalczewski fought Rochigiani twice and won both times. He fought Derrick Harmon who won a clear descision against Glencoff Johnson who knocked Roy Jones Jr. He knocked out in 4 Montell Griffin who gave Jones so much trouble in their first fight.
            And how much trouble did Montell give Roy in the rematch? None. You seem to forget that. Also, it kind of scares me that you seem to think the man who got KO'd by Glen Johnson and the prime Roy Jones Jr. have anything to do with each other. Get some perspective before you bring another weak-ass argument like that.

            You then bring up Benn and McClellen. Benn and McClellen are not even that great of fighter each of them have losses to low ranked fighters, and Julian Jackson is not prize winner either I dont why you even bring them into the discussion.
            Pay attention. I brought up this point because Neuraxis said Roy had ducked them, and I gave reasons that support that his statement is flawed at best.

            Don't debate with me if you don't even know who I am talking to or why.

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            • The Troll
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              #56
              Roy ducked Michael Nunn, he saw how Nunn handled Rochigiani and ran and refused to defend the Lt. Heavyweight championship end of story. His little publicity stunt to get out of it was to fight James buster Douglas, which he actually never did do. Roy is a piss poor champion to run away from the mandatory challengers. Roy was afraid of Nunn-(why) because nunn has power and roy has a weak chin.

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              • The Troll
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                #57
                Everybody says Toney talks so much **** and cant back it up. Roy JOnes Jr. and his fans talk more **** than any other fans and never back it up. Roy talk so much ****, at one point in his career he kept on going on TV and saying he could knock out Tyson and all this **** but the fact is, he runs from quality fighters like Nunn and Michalczewski, and all the best in every divsision.

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                • oldgringo
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                  #58
                  Originally posted by McKay
                  Roy ducked Michael Nunn, he saw how Nunn handled Rochigiani and ran and refused to defend the Lt. Heavyweight championship end of story. His little publicity stunt to get out of it was to fight James buster Douglas, which he actually never did do. Roy is a piss poor champion to run away from the mandatory challengers. Roy was afraid of Nunn-(why) because nunn has power and roy has a weak chin.

                  Nunn's power was nothing special above 168...he never KO'ed anyone of any worth about 168. Roy wouldn't have been afraid of his power at 175.

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                  • Super_Lightweight
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                    #59
                    lol

                    His little publicity stunt to get out of it was to fight James buster Douglas, which he actually never did do. Roy is a piss poor champion to run away from the mandatory challengers. Roy was afraid of Nunn-(why) because nunn has power and roy has a weak chin.
                    1) Roy did go on the fight Ruiz, at an older age and when he was slower, so there is a reason to think that he actually did want to fight Douglass, and it was not just a stunt to get out of fighting an old Michael Nunn. Roy has fought guys with more power than Nunn.

                    2) Roy has fought plenty of mandatories.

                    3) Roy's chin was not "weak". His ability to take a punch was made to be weaker by several different events. His chin was tested vs Ruiz, and in the first Tarver fight. The blow that put him down in the rematch would have put out many, if not all lightheavyweights. However, his ability to take a punch was damaged when he lost muscle mass to come back down from heavyweight. He was less healthy in general and yet still eeked out a decision vs Tarver. In the Tarver fight, Roy was hit with at least 15-20 hard rabbit-punches that were uncalled by upstart ref Kenny Bayless. This may also have affected Roy's ability to take a punch. Vs Glen Johnson, Roy was hit with HARD punches that did not take him down until he was finally hit on the temple in the 9th round. Look at round 5 to see that Roy still in fact did not have a weak chin, as he takes a monster punch and makes a rally in that round. Roy's ability to take a punch isn't as good as it used to be, but it still doesn't deserve to be called weak, and certainly in his prime it was at least good. One must also consider that Roy started his career at 154, and in fact was normally the smaller man in his fights for the latter half of his career.

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                    • Shaolin Bushido
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                      #60
                      Originally posted by martinwbc
                      Roy Jones Junior was undoubtably an exceptional talent!

                      But I think, he could have been SOOOOO MUCH MORE! Had he not avoided the best in every division?

                      So what will he be remembered as now?
                      Top 10 all time middleweight. Nothing that happens can influence his rating anymore. He's clearly declined.

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