Comments Thread For: Tyson Fury Falls Below Anthony Joshua In Rankings Following Loss To Oleksandr Usyk

[billeau2]

I'm not bamboozled about how a fighter performs when his days are finished.
The Prime Wilder who KO'd Ortiz and Drew with the best Fury that ever was would be a nightmare for blood & guts Holyfield and china chinned Klitschko and Joshua, IMO.


Most would strongly disagree. At least this season, attantion spans and memory being what they are today. But only a handful of those have seen any of the six boxers mentioned in this post live & up close, as I have.

Does that even matter? You'd have to have seen them live to have a valid opinion about that.

The public is cursed with a short attention span... A fighter has a good ten year window to do their best work... Most casual type fans would not even realize WHAT was so great about Ali... The fact that the best we saw was already after he had given his best years to Thoth, the God of Justice, after refusing to kill people he had no beef with. Alas, it only takes a little imagination to see Ali in his actual prime, how incredible he would be...

Real fans recognize these limits. Fans were more educated back when... No Louis, or Marciano fan I have spoken to EVER considers Marciano's victory over a bloated Louis (who still weighed in proportionally less than most heavyweight fighters supposedly 'in shape' come in today) relevant. They all seem to know better. Yet today? Fans often seem clueless about age, attrition and how it effects us biologically. Truly a case of not getting punched in the face enough!

Fighters used to welcome the effects of pugalism as a badge, a cause to train harder... Whoops! Broken nose, have to really get better oxygen efficiency! Arthritis! Have to train to endure more pain... etc etc. But these enticements come back in our twilight, and the effect is culmulative. That is life...

[daggum]

I'm not bamboozled about how a fighter performs when his days are finished.
The Prime Wilder who KO'd Ortiz and Drew with the best Fury that ever was would be a nightmare for blood & guts Holyfield and china chinned Klitschko and Joshua, IMO.


Most would strongly disagree. At least this season, attantion spans and memory being what they are today. But only a handful of those have seen any of the six boxers mentioned in this post live & up close, as I have.

Does that even matter? You'd have to have seen them live to have a valid opinion about that.

thats true. you are are bamboozled by how a guy performs against soft opposition.

[billeau2]

thats true. you are are bamboozled by how a guy performs against soft opposition.

The same opposition all fighters fought. We all realize the limits of this epoche for the heavyweight division... But you? You create Eagles out of pigeons with your ridiculous assertions about the level of competition faced by the top of the heavyweight division.

When a fighter who fought european level competition all his career is lauded and compared to a fighter who fought in a premier division competing against the strongest fighters, when there is any marked difference in competition, it matters... Wilder fought from the same pool as Joshua, Fury, etc and you just constantly ignore that fact.

Your the guy that buys a t u r d in a bottle because it says "Premier" t u r d on the label. Your the guy that looks at a snail in your yard and swears never to eat Escargo... You have no sense of comparison at all.

[The D3vil]

What makes zero sense is you believing that Fury arguably won that fight. Fury won no more than three rounds. If you believe differently, please state the rounds that you believe he won outside of rounds 4-6.
This was not a close fight. Not even sort of close. Fury got outboxed for nine rounds and got beat around the ring nearly KO’d before being saved by the referee. AJ was merely outboxed twice.

WRONG

Usyk only landed 13 more punches than Fury over 12 rounds.

That's 1 punch per round.

Fury dominated 2-7 or 8 with his uppercuts that had Usyk wobbling around the ring.

I agree Usyk got him from like the 8th or 9th round on, but Fury won a lot of the rounds, G, unless you hate Fury, which I'm guessing you do.

[Willow The Wisp]

The same opposition all fighters fought. We all realize the limits of this epoche for the heavyweight division... But you? You create Eagles out of pigeons with your ridiculous assertions about the level of competition faced by the top of the heavyweight division.

When a fighter who fought european level competition all his career is lauded and compared to a fighter who fought in a premier division competing against the strongest fighters, when there is any marked difference in competition, it matters... Wilder fought from the same pool as Joshua, Fury, etc and you just constantly ignore that fact.

Your the guy that buys a t u r d in a bottle because it says "Premier" t u r d on the label. Your the guy that looks at a snail in your yard and swears never to eat Escargo... You have no sense of comparison at all.

Completely correct! Just spot on.

I greatly dislike disparaging a true, gifted warrior like A.J. when I rush to defend another true, gifted warrior in Deontay Wilder; but how else to drive the point home so that more casual level fans can understand?

I can easily concur that Joshua met the best opponent list out of the championship caliber heavyweights of his era.
The question is; how does that contribute to his overall body of work versus his top contemporaries Fury, Usyk, Wilder and Ruiz?

Well, if he had actually beaten them all, and at their best; that opinion would be the driver for ranking their respective body of work.

But he didn't.

Cornish didn't pan out, even at the domestic level.

Whyte was in development and would take his narrow loss to A.J. and improve, eventually passing Joshua in the ratings for a time.

Charles Martin, from whom Joshua won his title claim, when matched with Ortiz, a Wilder KO victim, was knocked out.

Breazeale, Molina and Helenius, were common opponents, and Wilder handled them much better. Fishing from the same pond.

Wladimir Klitschko, Carlos Takam, Povetkin and Pulev were all past their best; and Wladimir was long since De-titled by Fury, and on an ill-advisted comeback after 3 brutal knockout loses, he came within abreath of exposing A.J.

Parker, who's biggest wins were against Hughie Fury, Dimitrenko and a gift against Ruiz, went the distance with AJ in a dull fight.

Other that that, Joshua was beaten by both Ruiz and Usyk, both underdogs, the former brutally.

The massive "Gap in opposition quality" is light-knowledge fans supporting their idol by making exaggerations, and still lighter knowledge posters "liking" their posts.

I respect the Casual fans! Sports are nothing without them.

[Willow The Wisp]

WRONG

Usyk only landed 13 more punches than Fury over 12 rounds.

That's 1 punch per round.

Fury dominated 2-7 or 8 with his uppercuts that had Usyk wobbling around the ring.

I agree Usyk got him from like the 8th or 9th round on, but Fury won a lot of the rounds, G, unless you hate Fury, which I'm guessing you do.

A great post. Bring the Real.

Fury was in some real knock-down, drag out wars.
Usyk never was.
Maybe Fury is through and can't improve for the rematch and Usyk does improve a bit.

He'd better.....
If Fury improves his performance just a little, he wins, and sits on the throne of Combat sports as the era he began 10 years earlier comes to a close.

Or, Usyk repeats.

[billeau2]

Completely correct! Just spot on.

I greatly dislike disparaging a true, gifted warrior like A.J. when I rush to defend another true, gifted warrior in Deontay Wilder; but how else to drive the point home so that more casual level fans can understand?

I can easily concur that Joshua met the best opponent list out of the championship caliber heavyweights of his era.
The question is; how does that contribute to his overall body of work versus his top contemporaries Fury, Usyk, Wilder and Ruiz?

Well, if he had actually beaten them all, and at their best; that opinion would be the driver for ranking their respective body of work.

But he didn't.

Cornish didn't pan out, even at the domestic level.

Whyte was in development and would take his narrow loss to A.J. and improve, eventually passing Joshua in the ratings for a time.

Charles Martin, from whom Joshua won his title claim, when matched with Ortiz, a Wilder KO victim, was knocked out.

Breazeale, Molina and Helenius, were common opponents, and Wilder handled them much better. Fishing from the same pond.

Wladimir Klitschko, Carlos Takam, Povetkin and Pulev were all past their best; and Wladimir was long since De-titled by Fury, and on an ill-advisted comeback after 3 brutal knockout loses, he came within abreath of exposing A.J.

Parker, who's biggest wins were against Hughie Fury, Dimitrenko and a gift against Ruiz, went the distance with AJ in a dull fight.

Other that that, Joshua was beaten by both Ruiz and Usyk, both underdogs, the former brutally.

The massive "Gap in opposition quality" is light-knowledge fans supporting their idol by making exaggerations, and still lighter knowledge posters "liking" their posts.

I respect the Casual fans! Sports are nothing without them.

You actually took the time and effort to list the information... You totalled the fights, the common opponents, etc. BTW just a funny aside: part of Daggum and other's silliness is to disparage Ortiz. Yet Ortiz beat Martin, and probably would have been very competative with AJ. Ortiz might be the best scalp out there aside from Ruiz who beat AJ once. I mean I love Chisora, and I always liked Whyte, but they are simply workman like fighters from the pool... And others from the pool, as you say were dominated by Wilder.

Daggum is actually chairman of the international alliance for Casual fans united. This is a respected organization that heralds the rights of casual fans everywhere to say ridiculous things...They have a common affiliation with Monty Python's ministry of silly walks.

https://********/iV2ViNJFZC8

[kafkod]

The same opposition all fighters fought. We all realize the limits of this epoche for the heavyweight division... But you? You create Eagles out of pigeons with your ridiculous assertions about the level of competition faced by the top of the heavyweight division.

When a fighter who fought european level competition all his career is lauded and compared to a fighter who fought in a premier division competing against the strongest fighters, when there is any marked difference in competition, it matters... Wilder fought from the same pool as Joshua, Fury, etc and you just constantly ignore that fact.

Your the guy that buys a t u r d in a bottle because it says "Premier" t u r d on the label. Your the guy that looks at a snail in your yard and swears never to eat Escargo... You have no sense of comparison at all.

Yes, Wilder fought from the same pool, but he stayed in the shallow end for most of his career and when he did eventually venture into the deeper water he was left floundering and soundly beaten, every time.

[kafkod]

You actually took the time and effort to list the information... You totalled the fights, the common opponents, etc. BTW just a funny aside: part of Daggum and other's silliness is to disparage Ortiz. Yet Ortiz beat Martin, and probably would have been very competative with AJ. Ortiz might be the best scalp out there aside from Ruiz who beat AJ once. I mean I love Chisora, and I always liked Whyte, but they are simply workman like fighters from the pool... And others from the pool, as you say were dominated by Wilder.

Daggum is actually chairman of the international alliance for Casual fans united. This is a respected organization that heralds the rights of casual fans everywhere to say ridiculous things...They have a common affiliation with Monty Python's ministry of silly walks.

https://********/iV2ViNJFZC8

Daggum is right to disparage Ortiz. How that guy got a top 10 ranking and kept it for so long on the strength of one world class win, over Bryant Jennings, back in 2015, is something I will never understand.

Would he have been competitive with AJ? Possibly, but we never got to find out because he blatantly ducked the fight when it was offered to him for a career high $7million purse, after he put himself forward as a replacement for Big Pharma Miller then mysteriously disappeared when Eddie Hearn called his bluff.

[billeau2]

Yes, Wilder fought from the same pool, but he stayed in the shallow end for most of his career and when he did eventually venture into the deeper water he was left floundering and soundly beaten, every time.

And who has avoided that fate? Usyk. Who else has lost to someone in that pool. And I don't know what you mean by the shallow end because Wilder did not fight inferior opposition despite what all the Joshua heads would like to believe.