Where do you place Usyk all-time at heavyweight after last night?

[Pac=Duran]

Tough question.

His two wins against AJ and now one against Fury are probably better wins than Larry Holmes, Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Sonny Liston, or either Klitschko ever had.

Frazier’s career, no disrespect, is defined by one win, albeit one of the best victories ever, so Usyk may edge Joe.

Louis, Ali, Marciano, Lewis, and Holyfield are, off the cuff, my plus one Rushmore at HW.

Big George is my all time fave, but I find his career odd and hard to define. Destructions of Frazier and Norton are special. He had a poor showing against Ali which is forgivable and again against Morrison which isn’t. Regaining the crown at an advanced age was epic, but Moorer wasn’t exactly a world beater at heavy.

I don’t know. The Cat’s pro career overall is defined by so few but at the same time significant fights that he’s hard to rank.

I will say this. Of the great fighters at any weight I’ve had the pleasure of watching in my lifetime (JCC, RJJ, Floyd, Calzaghe, Oscar, Holyfield, Lewis, Foreman, Bud, Inoue, GGG, Wlad, Hopkins, and so many more) Usyk takes a back seat to no one.

Exactly. All these greats of the past except Ali don't really have many great wins. Who did Foreman, Vitali, Wlad and Larry Holmes even beat?

Usyk is above pretty much everyone now let's be honest. Tyson is up there too. None of these past all time greats would be able to do anything with Fury

[automaton89]

I think Usyk will be remembered as a Sugar Ray Robinson when we are all gone. That's not saying he is... But he will be viewed in that light.

[automaton89]

Exactly. All these greats of the past except Ali don't really have many great wins. Who did Foreman, Vitali, Wlad and Larry Holmes even beat?

Usyk is above pretty much everyone now let's be honest. Tyson is up there too. None of these past all time greats would be able to do anything with Fury

Foreman beat Frazier. Foreman is without doubt a top 3 HW ever. Frazier did not lose to anyone besides Ali and Foreman, nor was he ever close to doing it.

[automaton89]

. None of these past all time greats would be able to do anything with Fury

So Fury struggles with Ngannou but beats Lewis and Holmes?

[Pac=Duran]

I think Usyk will be remembered as a Sugar Ray Robinson when we are all gone. That's not saying he is... But he will be viewed in that light.

Maybe. He literally won everything. Gold medal in World Champs and Olympics then undisputed at cruiser and heavyweight, taking the hardest possible route to the top. Every single fight on the road btw, with foreign judges, refs and fans. Everything was stacked against him.

Imagine he closes out his career beating say Parker, Hrgovic and then Fury rematch.

He should retire now though

[Murray Kelm]

Holmes has a strong resume Norton, Shavers, Cooney, Witherspoon, Williams, Bonecrusher Smith, Snipes, Mercer, when Larry was ancient.

[crimsonfalcon07]

Credit to Fury for finally giving Usyk a run for his money. That match was a toss-up.

While I agree that it's impressive how he bridged the gap on Fury, I think the guy moving up has all the advantages. He has more speed, he's used to other people being faster, and he's a heavyweight (or else they wouldn't sanction it). The one thing the natural heavyweight has might work against him.

I love how it goes from "the bigger guy has all the advantages, height, reach, power, etc" to this silliness. What about the "a good big guy beats a good little guy"?

Fury wasn't at Usyk's level, and Usyk is just The Guy. I'm glad to see him finally getting credit. People been overlooking him since his debut, and he's a truly great fighter. It will be interesting to see where he lands in the ATG conversation, but he'll certainly be in it, and IMO he's the greatest road warrior, at least of active fighters, if not all time. I'm not a historian, so I can't speak with authority that.

[automaton89]

I love how it goes from "the bigger guy has all the advantages, height, reach, power, etc" to this silliness. What about the "a good big guy beats a good little guy"?

Fury wasn't at Usyk's level, and Usyk is just The Guy. I'm glad to see him finally getting credit. People been overlooking him since his debut, and he's a truly great fighter. It will be interesting to see where he lands in the ATG conversation, but he'll certainly be in it, and IMO he's the greatest road warrior, at least of active fighters, if not all time. I'm not a historian, so I can't speak with authority that.

I don't think a dude at 6'2 is a "little guy".

[crimsonfalcon07]

I don't think a dude at 6'2 is a "little guy".

Doesn't change the facts or the meaning of the saying, or the silliness of that take. If you don't understand the meaning of the saying, you won't understand the ironic humor in your take.

[dan_cov]

I think Lennox Lewis would have schooled Usyk and Lennox would be too big for Usyk.

Lennox only ever fought one southpaw who was a very low level journeyman.
He is on record saying he hated fighting them and there are rumours he got ****** up a few times in sparring vs southpaws, Sanders being one.

Regardless nobody is schooling Usyk, they might beat him but I can't ever envision anybody not given all they could handle and then some.