Casual Fans overlooking Fury's mastery of his Era?

[Marchegiano]

Great job Marchegiano!!!
This was good work by Marchegiano I (with my help).
It is a list of title claimants, as opposed to a list of only lineal champions. Lacking WWII interim champion Jimmy Bivens, WAA champion Monte Masters, World Boxing Federation (WBF) champion Joe Bugner, and a number of others, it remains a WIP. What it illustrates is the importance of distinguishing commonly recognized lineal Champions from title claimants (who were many), and the need to recognize the man who beat the man, as all serious historians have done.
To argue that water isn't wet is not an argument that is strengthened by either eloquence or willful ignorance.

To leave the mark of history in the hands of Mauricio Sulaimán, Gilberto Mendoza Jr., or Daryl Peoples, so that they might profit, and to propagate this at the expense of history?

Shameful!

I have yet to even tell the Paddy, his daughter, and Monte story. It's a good one though, good mention.

It is my intention to mark every champion ever regardless of minority or consensus but of course that's an absurd undertaking and I've not had the free time really since 2018 maybe 19. I had a child ... maybe when she's older I will finish.

[Willow The Wisp]

If you don't understand the difference between the status of a title holder and an actual title - or maybe just don't want to admit that there is a difference - then look at it this way: You keep saying that history validates Fury's lineal championship claims. In fact, there has never been a fighter in the history of boxing who was accepted as a true lineal champion - by anybody other than his own team and fanboys - without also being a title belt holder and a licensed boxer.

History proves that you are wrong. Fury stopped being the lineal HW champ when he was stripped of the Ring title in 2018, after relinquishing all his other belts and handing in his boxing licence in 2016.

Stop being so stubborn and accept reality.

Then you should have no difficulty informing us who it was who beat Fury for the lineal title.

Your argument is contrary to the concept of the title being passed to the man who beat the man.
You are rediculous in suggesting that any other title exists as legitimate, and do a tremendous disservice to our sport.
This is not something that anyone who understands boxing history would frame as a debate.
Since John L. Sullivan, the title is decided inside the ring.

Our debate was completely one sided, and is over.

[kafkod]

Then you should have no difficulty informing us who it was who beat Fury for the lineal title.

Your argument is contrary to the concept of the title being passed to the man who beat the man.
You are rediculous in suggesting that any other title exists as legitimate, and do a tremendous disservice to our sport.
This is not something that anyone who understands boxing history would frame as a debate.
Since John L. Sullivan, the title is decided inside the ring.

Our debate was completely one sided, and is over.

By your own "logic", you should have no difficulty informing us who beat Lennox Lewis for the lineal title.

[Willow The Wisp]

By your own "logic", you should have no difficulty informing us who beat Lennox Lewis for the lineal title.

Or Tunney, or Marciano, right? Study.

[Willow The Wisp]

I have yet to even tell the Paddy, his daughter, and Monte story. It's a good one though, good mention.

It is my intention to mark every champion ever regardless of minority or consensus but of course that's an absurd undertaking and I've not had the free time really since 2018 maybe 19. I had a child ... maybe when she's older I will finish.

Congratulations on having a Child!!!! Awesome!


The WAA still has a boxing website online:

http://www.pten.tv/web/waa/thewaaindex.htm

History of the Heavyweight Champion of the WAAorld:

1981 Floyd "Jumbo" Cummings named WAA World Heavyweight Champion

08 March 1981 - Cummings relinquishes title.

22 September 1983 - Monte Masters wins WAA World Heavyweight title by knockout in round fourteen (14) over Tony Fulilangi in Phoenix, Arizona, USA.

12 June 1984 - Masters stripped of title.

06 November 2004 - Gene Pukall wins the WAA World Heavyweight title by knockout over Frank Broehme in round two (2) in Berlin, Germany.

09 April 2005 - Pukall defends and wins by knockout over Frank Broehme in round one (1) in Berlin, Germany.

26 November 2005 - Pukall relinquishes title due to change in management.

20 May 2006 - Gene Pukall regains the WAA World Heavyweight title by technical knockout over Ingo Jaede in round three (3) in Bautzen, Sachsen, Germany. Pukall also wins the IBU-International Boxing Union European Heavyweight title.

19 November 2006 - Pukall relinquishes title due to retirement.

[Dr. Z]

Fury mastery of this era? This the same Fury that got spanked by a bum ass UFC fighter we talking about?

All jokes aside, Fury is an overrated, hype job. Fury wins because he's big, that's it, nothing special about him.

And because of his big ass, size, Fury will most likely beat everyone in this era. Again not because of talent or skill but because of size.

Well, he wins because he only fights the old, fat and not so good!

No fights or wins from him vs Joshua, Usky, Hrgovic, Zhang or Parker ... the current best in the division.

He busted for PEDs on the Hammer fight, beat a 39+ year old Wlad, made 3 fights vs. a man that I think is mere chinny contender, while being docked five times is five separate fights. And had several controversial decisions given to him! One vs a 0-0 boxer, the other vs. a garden variety Englishman not tanked in top top 50!

History will not be kind to him.

[j0zef]

I don't really get it. Is this list saying that Otto Wallin is the 17th best HW of 'this generation'...?

Fury beat complacent Wlad, jerked him around for a year and ducked the rematch, then beat Wilder. That's it for Fury's resume.

[QueensburyRules]

Bulls**t. The guy hasn't done very much at all.
6 of those ten are against two fighters, and top 50 lmao that's hardly a proud accomplishment.
Wilder, who is vastly overrated and Chisora who is basically a gatekeeper and well past it in two of the three.
Wlad was 40 and it's a stinker of a non-fight. Take that away and you're left with the lkes of Sefer Seferi and Tom Schwartz. Wallin isn't anything special.
Then throw in the fact that Fury basically lost to McDermmott and Ngannou and got gifted decisions, dropped by loads of nobodies and bludgeoned by Otto no-name Wallin.
C'mon man, get real. It is casuals who are still brown nosing this guy and his ducking of AJ and Zhang and all the other challenges, and it is actual boxing people, Froch, Groves, Frampton and proper puundits, True Geordie, Porky etc - who are calling him out.
Your title is wrong. These are not casuals. The casuals are supporting the big ol' drug cheating ducker, the boxing insiders are calling him out.

- - Yeah, Deyonce the TBA short notice WBC champ was always a joke, and 'Blubber ducked Wlad rematch to retire in disgraced drug suspension, but only a mad hatter Brit thinks McD beat Fury the first fight before Fury KTFO of McD the 2nd fight.

Last round of the first McD fight, Fury had him on the ropes beating him into a knockout when McD suddenly sprinted his 260 lbs across the ring, ie not only turning his back, but sprinting, a clear TKO or DQ by any competent ref.

Fury was easily top 5 when he retired, so it's on him that he signed with MTK to make a joke of a comeback. He and his promoter and his mgr are now banned in America where they had their biggest financial success.

[Willow The Wisp]

I don't really get it. Is this list saying that Otto Wallin is the 17th best HW of 'this generation'...?

Fury beat complacent Wlad, jerked him around for a year and ducked the rematch, then beat Wilder. That's it for Fury's resume.

Active fighters are in motion. Wilder has dropped. So has Wallin.

[Willow The Wisp]

Well, he wins because he only fights the old, fat and not so good!

No fights or wins from him vs Joshua, Usky, Hrgovic, Zhang or Parker ... the current best in the division.

He busted for PEDs on the Hammer fight, beat a 39+ year old Wlad, made 3 fights vs. a man that I think is mere chinny contender, while being docked five times is five separate fights. And had several controversial decisions given to him! One vs a 0-0 boxer, the other vs. a garden variety Englishman not tanked in top top 50!

History will not be kind to him.

Well, Fury's been around awhile now, breaking into the top 10 eleven years ago. Hrgovic and Zhang are fairly new entries to the top.

Usyk is up next, and Joshua and Parker have collectively lost to Joyce, Whyte, Joshua, Ruiz, Usyk twice - 6 losses. All while Fury sat on the throne undefeated.

Calling him out for being a jackass, failing to live up to commitments, running his mouth at 10 times the speed he actually fights, failing to do 10 situps for seasoned MMA boxer Ngannou and having a thin resume, especially for a guy who's sat on the title for 8 freekin' years? 100% legitimate.

But there he is, still undefeated, still commanding millions and millions. Still the holder of the Sullivan, Johnson, Dempsey, Louis title. What can I say?

He's a hard guy to defend.

Maybe Usyk will knock him off.