Pacquiao's catchweights

[ELPacman]

You guys act like "Catchweights" are something crazy. You can weigh anything you want in a fight up until the "limit" of that division. A catchweight means you can't go beyond the agreed upon weight which isn't crazy when you think about it. How many fighters come in UNDER the limit of the weight they're supposed to? That technically means, he came in at a catchweight but it wasn't negotiated.

In the terms of a big fight, a "catchweight" means, the underdog or guy coming up is already sacrificing, so he's asking, Okay, we can have a fight in the realm of let's say "Welterweight" but, you need to be weighing below that actual LIMIT because I cannot go that high. Pac utilized these early on because he had just entered WW and was a SMALL WW. It wasn't until he got adjusted and climated to the weight that he could let people weigh WW and beyond. Example being, Margarito. He weighted 147lbs fight night, then goes up to 162lbs over night. You think a guy who can barely PUT ON 147lbs can now take on a guy 2 whole divisions bigger than him? It was for Pac's safety. None of these guys had to accept the fights.

Some of you are on the Fraud Jr. side. Well just know, he made Marquez jump up 2 divisions in a division he had never fought at, at a catchweight of 145lbs and then he, even Fraud himself didn't care to make the weight. Let's recap. You had a small fighter moving up to face the bigger man at an agreed weight to KIND of help the smaller guy, then the bigger guy says, nah, F that, I don't want to take a chance, I'll just take the penalty. In comparison, Pac has been given no benefits or help in general. He's either been the smaller guy or the guy that if he doesn't knock his opponent out or down a few times, barely has a chance to pull a decision.

[Roadblock]

Nah.

De La Hoya had a catchweight with Steve Forbes aswell as Hopkins.

Hopkins had a catchweight with Winky Wright aswell as Geale.

Cotto had a catchweight with Martinez aswell as Geale (After complaining about his previous catchweight with Pacquaio)

Point is, they all had multiple catchweight fights.

They didn't make their careers like they did Mannys, imagine if he had to fight ODH who was the Golden Boy you beat him your into the big time, at 154 as Floyd did years earlier, there would be no Manny as we know it, Cotto and Oscar both effected by the weight had a significant influence on his career as a whole, others had them not as many and not in a way that turned them into superstars as it did with Manny, its not just CW like ticking a box, the picture is much bigger than that.

[ELPacman]

They didn't make their careers like they did Mannys, imagine if he had to fight ODH who was the Golden Boy you beat him your into the big time, at 154 as Floyd did years earlier, there would be no Manny as we know it, Cotto and Oscar both effected by the weight had a significant influence on his career as a whole, others had them not as many and not in a way that turned them into superstars as it did with Manny, its not just CW like ticking a box, the picture is much bigger than that.

Pacquiao didn't make his careers with them. If you learned about him then, you missed prime Pac at his best. For me, Pac made his career when he blitz Barrera. Then fought multiple wars with Morales and Marquez. Put on a dazzling display of boxing against David Diaz.

For me, the icing on the cake was everything Pac did at WW but this division did not truly define him. This division only helped his pockets.

[Joe Grizzley]

Nah.

De La Hoya had a catchweight with Steve Forbes aswell as Hopkins.

Hopkins had a catchweight with Winky Wright aswell as Geale.

Cotto had a catchweight with Martinez aswell as Geale (After complaining about his previous catchweight with Pacquaio)

Point is, they all had multiple catchweight fights.

Tha was at the very end of Oscars career, not during his peak. Big big difference. So I was wrong, there was 2. That is still less than Manny, by far! Oscar didn't get his best wins on catchweights either.

Martinez was a 1 pound catchweight and agin, towards the very end of his career. Cotto's best wins were a long time before that. So ok 2, still less than Manny and Cotto didn't get his best wins in catchweights.

Hopkins came down to fight WInky, hardly making someone srhink to get the fight. Hopkins had to shrink. I don't count that, nobody should.

Point is you said "Pacquaio didn't really utilize catchweights any more than the above" and its not true. Even with doubling the score on Cotto and Oscar you still lose. Also, Manny's best wins were at catchweights, Cotto and Oscar had already had an entire career before doing anything.

Big big difference.

[ELPacman]

Tha was at the very end of Oscars career, not during his peak. Big big difference. So I was wrong, there was 2. That is still less than Manny, by far! Oscar didn't get his best wins on catchweights either.

Martinez was a 1 pound catchweight and agin, towards the very end of his career. Cotto's best wins were a long time before that. So ok 2, still less than Manny and Cotto didn't get his best wins in catchweights.

Hopkins came down to fight WInky, hardly making someone srhink to get the fight. Hopkins had to shrink. I don't count that, nobody should.

Point is you said "Pacquaio didn't really utilize catchweights any more than the above" and its not true. Even with doubling the score on Cotto and Oscar you still lose. Also, Manny's best wins were at catchweights, Cotto and Oscar had already had an entire career before doing anything.

Big big difference.

Cotto and Oscar were not where near his best wins unless you just started watching boxing.

Barrera and Morales were his best wins by far.

[Roadblock]

You guys act like "Catchweights" are something crazy. You can weigh anything you want in a fight up until the "limit" of that division. A catchweight means you can't go beyond the agreed upon weight which isn't crazy when you think about it. How many fighters come in UNDER the limit of the weight they're supposed to? That technically means, he came in at a catchweight but it wasn't negotiated.

In the terms of a big fight, a "catchweight" means, the underdog or guy coming up is already sacrificing, so he's asking, Okay, we can have a fight in the realm of let's say "Welterweight" but, you need to be weighing below that actual LIMIT because I cannot go that high. Pac utilized these early on because he had just entered WW and was a SMALL WW. It wasn't until he got adjusted and climated to the weight that he could let people weigh WW and beyond. Example being, Margarito. He weighted 147lbs fight night, then goes up to 162lbs over night. You think a guy who can barely PUT ON 147lbs can now take on a guy 2 whole divisions bigger than him? It was for Pac's safety. None of these guys had to accept the fights.

Some of you are on the Fraud Jr. side. Well just know, he made Marquez jump up 2 divisions in a division he had never fought at, at a catchweight of 145lbs and then he, even Fraud himself didn't care to make the weight. Let's recap. You had a small fighter moving up to face the bigger man at an agreed weight to KIND of help the smaller guy, then the bigger guy says, nah, F that, I don't want to take a chance, I'll just take the penalty. In comparison, Pac has been given no benefits or help in general. He's either been the smaller guy or the guy that if he doesn't knock his opponent out or down a few times, barely has a chance to pull a decision.

If it must be written into a contract that you weigh less than you normally do then it obviously matters, its not in there to give them an advantage, its in to gain one, you cannot compare a fighter going up in weight to a fighter going down, its totally different results, and then you can't even compare one CW to another because it will affect different individuals more than others depending on many variables, you guys throw ALL CWs into the same boat nothing could be further from reality.

Guys except fights under duress its how the game works, pressure from promoters and advisers, they are all fighters thats what they do, as in Cotto and Canelo Oscar or anyone else that lost with a CW they will never do it again going down in weight, they learned the hard way, the problem is fans don't see it they have no clue how much of a difference it can make, they don't know the signs all they see is a beating, they don't see the snap hot there, the resistance not there the strength not there in grapples, all they see is a beating.

[IronDanHamza]

Tha was at the very end of Oscars career, not during his peak. Big big difference. So I was wrong, there was 2. That is still less than Manny, by far! Oscar didn't get his best wins on catchweights either.

Martinez was a 1 pound catchweight and agin, towards the very end of his career. Cotto's best wins were a long time before that. So ok 2, still less than Manny and Cotto didn't get his best wins in catchweights.

Hopkins came down to fight WInky, hardly making someone srhink to get the fight. Hopkins had to shrink. I don't count that, nobody should.

Point is you said "Pacquaio didn't really utilize catchweights any more than the above" and its not true. Even with doubling the score on Cotto and Oscar you still lose. Also, Manny's best wins were at catchweights, Cotto and Oscar had already had an entire career before doing anything.

Big big difference.

Yeah that's fair, Pacquaio had more. But still, plenty others had their fair few.

The only big fight of Pacquaio's career where he had a catchweight was Cotto. All the other catchweights were nothing fights IMO.

So the same can be said for at the very least Cotto with his win over Martinez.

[IronDanHamza]

They didn't make their careers like they did Mannys, imagine if he had to fight ODH who was the Golden Boy you beat him your into the big time, at 154 as Floyd did years earlier, there would be no Manny as we know it, Cotto and Oscar both effected by the weight had a significant influence on his career as a whole, others had them not as many and not in a way that turned them into superstars as it did with Manny, its not just CW like ticking a box, the picture is much bigger than that.

Which fight you referring to? Cotto?

[ELPacman]

If it must be written into a contract that you weigh less than you normally do then it obviously matters, its not in there to give them an advantage, its in to gain one, you cannot compare a fighter going up in weight to a fighter going down, its totally different results, and then you can't even compare one CW to another because it will affect different individuals more than others depending on many variables, you guys throw ALL CWs into the same boat nothing could be further from reality.

Guys except fights under duress its how the game works, pressure from promoters and advisers, they are all fighters thats what they do, as in Cotto and Canelo Oscar or anyone else that lost with a CW they will never do it again going down in weight, they learned the hard way, the problem is fans don't see it they have no clue how much of a difference it can make, they don't know the signs all they see is a beating, they don't see the snap hot there, the resistance not there the strength not there in grapples, all they see is a beating.

I see the compromise from a catchweight but it works both ways. The guy accepting it, accepted it and knows he's going to get a big phat paycheck. The guy applying it, not always is doing it just for an advantage but to level the playing field. See my post again that Pac had JUST entered WW and was already a smaller dude. He was testing the waters. You can say that there is pressure and promoters but in the end, the fighter accepting the contract has the final say. He wouldn't have if he didn't think he couldn't win. Every Pac opponent thought he was too small a guy. It wasn't until they got befuddled that they had to come up with excuses.

[Johnny2x2x]

Floyd s cw with nel o is infinitely worse, against a green fighter? Not sure what's worse, the cw or Floyd fan wanting Floyd to get full credit for win?
The cw enabled Floyd to keep zero but don't then say it's a great win. Plus Floyd don't offer rematch at 154?
Pac offered rematch to cott o at 147 and he also fought another 12 years. Pac don't need to live off that win like Floyd tries to.
No comparison

LOL! Canelo weighed in at 153 his previous fight. 1 pound meant nothing and Canelo and his team said so.