Just to clarify things up..... Floyd still holds the lineal title at 147.

[Shattered Jaw]

Trying to claim beating Baldomir 2 years ago makes him the lineal champ now is a joke. Literally a joke.

[oc9979]

Critique of "Lineal" Boxing Championships
Daniel J. Castellano (2005)

Out of frustration with boxing’s sanctioning bodies, which create multiple titleholders and often wrongfully strip champions for failing to fight an unworthy mandatory challenger, many boxing enthusiasts have taken to creating “lineal” championship pedigrees, identifying the “real” champion as “the man who beat the man who beat the man.” While it is gratifying to see a single champion in each division at every point in time, a strictly lineal championship is often at odds with reality and resembles arcane genealogy more than a method of identifying a boxing champion.

There are times when a fighter may be legitimately stripped of his title without waiting for him to officially retire. After all, a fighter could refuse to face any quality competition, prolonging his purported championship by fighting strictly mediocre opponents. If, during this malaise, another fighter should defeat the other top contenders, he may come to be recognized as the real champion, much in the same way as occurs when there is a vacancy in the title. Obviously, this requires some sort of subjective judgment, rather than the mechanical rules of lineal genealogy.

By recognizing that the lineal champion is not always the real champion, we recognize that the champion requires public acclaim. Similarly, to become a king, it is not enough to be the lawful heir, but one must be recognized by the nation as its ruler, otherwise one is a king in name only. The championship, of course, is not strictly a popularity contest, but it should be based on real achievements in the ring that demonstrate to most informed observers that a certain man is the best in his class.

When a champion is willing to take on all comers, the championship will be passed on linearly, except in case of retirement or changing weight class. When the title is abandoned, a new lineage is established by a fight between the top two fighters, or at least between the first and third best fighters. Obviously, re-establishing a lineage involves the subjectivity of determining who are legitimate top contenders, and even lineal championship lists cannot avoid this ambiguity.

If a champion is not willing to fight all comers, he is not truly a world champion. For example, if he were only willing to fight Canadians, he cannot be more than a Canadian champion. To claim a world title, one must be willing to receive challenges from anywhere in the world. In practice, of course, one can only make several defenses, so the champion is allowed some reasonable discretion in his choice of opponent.

If a lineal champion is not recognized by sanctioning bodies nor by the boxing public, he should not be recognized as a real champion. His anonymity as a a champion prevents top contenders from seeking him out as an opponent. Instead they will pursue bouts with recognized titlists or top contenders, in the hopes of securing a recognized championship. In order to be the champion, people must know you are the champion.

[oc9979]

No because Floyd was the lineal champ. Mosley would have to beat Floyd to become the lineal champ.

look man the "lineal champ" is based in opinions.
The concept was developed by boxing fans dissatisfied by the tendency of each of the various sanctioning bodies (WBC, WBA, IBF, etc.) to recognize different champions, and in particular to strip a champion of his title for refusing to fight its top-ranked contender.

[oc9979]

ok so based on your theory why is floyd the lineal champ??
Let's go back in time to 1999. Felix "tito" Trinidad was the lineal champ at welterweight.
He never lost at welterweight. So why Tito is not the lineal champ at welterweight if he comes back??

[Ishy Aytan]

Where did you find this rule? i mean, it's a boxing rule, right? Shouldn't be that hard to find proof. So go find it.

Why is the Ring 147 championship vacant? Because no one has beaten Floyd at 147 to take his lineal title away from him.


If Lewis had come back to the ring after his retirement he still would've kept his lineal history, hence would still be considered as the lineal champ. But now thats changed as Wladmir's taken it.

[oc9979]

Why is the Ring 147 championship vacant? Because no one has beaten Floyd at 147 to take his lineal title away from him.


If Lewis had come back to the ring after his retirement he still would've kept his lineal history, hence would still be considered as the lineal champ. But now thats changed as Wladmir's taken it.

ring champs and lineal champs are 2 different things
to have a new ring champs all floyd has to do is watch mosley vs cotto fight for the belt and then we will have a ring champs

[IMDAZED]

Why is the Ring 147 championship vacant? Because no one has beaten Floyd at 147 to take his lineal title away from him.


If Lewis had come back to the ring after his retirement he still would've kept his lineal history, hence would still be considered as the lineal champ. But now thats changed as Wladmir's taken it.

1. How did Wladimir take it if he never beat Lewis?

2. I'm still waiting to see where this rule of yours was written. So far...nowhere.

[Ishy Aytan]

ok so based on your theory why is floyd the lineal champ??
Let's go back in time to 1999. Felix "tito" Trinidad was the lineal champ at welterweight.
He never lost at welterweight. So why Tito is not the lineal champ at welterweight if he comes back??

Tito moved up. Floyds likely to stay and fight at 147. His next fight with Marquez is a welterweight fight.


Hence he's come back at the weight where he left his lineage and still keeps it.

[IMDAZED]

ring champs and lineal champs are 2 different things

Don't let facts get in the way of this argument, please.

[Ishy Aytan]

1. How did Wladimir take it if he never beat Lewis?

2. I'm still waiting to see where this rule of yours was written. So far...nowhere.

Because Wladmir more or less cleaned out the heavyweight divison Ring made him the champ at that weight.


But had Lewis come back from retirment before that, he still would have held his lineage.




I cant find no rules, this is basic common sense i thought. This is why boxing experts kept saying that lewis needs to come back to settle a new lineage.


I gurantee if Floyd beats JMM, he'll be the champion at 147 on the Ring website.